Hunt to Commission a Viola - Part 3, A continuaton on our commission o Options

[mayofiddler6]

They look like very oddly behaving reflections to me, although in the last picture the reflection appears to carry on under the fingerboard on the treble side. I don't see how that can be unless the string isn't over the fingerboard. But generally they look more like reflections than cracks to me. Very peculiar reflections but reflections all the same.

[David Burgess]

In the spruce the crack would always follow the grain ....

Not true. It's always risky to say "always".

There's a picture of a crack which follows the grain line, then goes off at an angle, in post #6 of the thread linked below.
It's not the greatest example, but it was handy.

http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=321677

[arglebargle]

They are clearly reflections because you can see the angle of the string's reflection change as they pass (in the reflection) over the bridge. Furthermore, they terminate where their ability to be reflected is blocked by the fingerboard (note the A and D). The reflection is not clean simply because the varnish has a very nice surface patina, which is breaking and scattering the line of the reflection.

Hope this helps.

Kelvin

If you say so.

[Wolfjk]

Not true. It's always risky to say "always".

There's a picture of a crack which follows the grain line, then goes off at an angle, in post #6 of the thread linked below.
It's not the greatest example, but it was handy.

http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=321677

Wrong choice of word! I should have chosen "usally" or "normally"
Sometimes with near knots, rotten or fungus effected wood the the crack can go any direction.
The link you gave does not work on my computer, Or did you mean this? or this?
BTW, people might say if you toss a coin it is evens for head or tail. Sometimes it lands on its edge!

[linarol]

i went to walnut hill in 1993 for 8th grade - i was in a suzuki program before and then saw how amazing some people were.

[upnorth]

Hello!

I am the proud owner of this beautiful Alf viola that is of incredibly fine workmanship and without cracks. Thank you to all who have given my instrument the benefit of the doubt. I could not be any happier with this beautiful instrument, and am in Mr. Alf's debt for creating a viola that suites me perfectly. I always enjoy showing off the design on the back (sometimes referred to as the "tattoo" of the viola , and take much pleasure from the reactions of fellow violists when they learn of its small size.

That is a very beautiful instrument and you must be a very proud violist right now!

Hope to hear you play some day.

[jezzupe]

At first I thought they were cracks as well, I think what we are seeing is that the violin had rosin on the strings and at some point before the photo the string tension was reduced dramatically, the bridge was removed and the strings touched the belly for a moment leaving a rosin dust trail, it is suspect that there are 4 and that they end right before the tail starts

also, it looks like the A string is over out of its slot on the bridge, it needs to shift over to the right .55 mil

[robertdo]

You can see the shadow of the fingerboard and the last 2 "reflections" stop exactly at the shadow of the FB. Of course cracks could by chance end exactly there but... And they really don't appear on the picture of the top taken with no angle (first picture). Impressionists were painting rays of lights exactly that way, short broken brush strokes

[nertz]

Aren’t those marks just a result of a hasty photo-shopping of string shadows ?

[colledge]

Kelvin, it wasn't so clear to me. In fact, if I showed that picture to most experienced restorers, I think they would assume that they were seeing damage.

We can run it by the people at the Violin Society of America/Oberlin Restoration Workshop in a couple of weeks, and see how clear it is to them. We'll have some of the major players in the restoration business there.

I think that if you showed it to Sacconi himself, he would tell you that he's never seen a photo of a violin with 4 equidistant cracks in front of and behind the bridge that look suspiciously like the string angles and mistook them for a reflection.

David, I've never met you, but reading your posts here I'm entertained by your sense of humor. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that you are, successfully, trying to tweak your friend G. Alf, stir the pot here, and promote Oberlin all at the same time.

[David Burgess]

Aren’t those marks just a result of a hasty photo-shopping of string shadows ?

I like that the best of the explanations so far.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that you are, successfully, trying to tweak your friend G. Alf, stir the pot here, and promote Oberlin all at the same time.

Moi?

[servingaudio]

I think that if you showed it to Sacconi himself, he would tell you that he's never seen a photo of a violin with 4 equidistant cracks in front of and behind the bridge that look suspiciously like the string angles and mistook them for a reflection.

David, I've never met you, but reading your posts here I'm entertained by your sense of humor. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that you are, successfully, trying to tweak your friend G. Alf, stir the pot here, and promote Oberlin all at the same time.

I have taken the time to read throught the thread and I can only agree with Colledge.

This thread is about a gorgeous modern viola and the adventures of a 16 year old woman who commissioned it. Reporting back after a couple of years is priceless information to those of us interested in small violas or in commissioning instruments from one of today's leading makers.

Less interesting is the pathetic spectacle of one modern maker trying to divert well deserved praise from his colleagues. Alf's fine work and professional demeanor is obvious in both the photos and in the owner's written account. Make no mistake, we see disingenuously innocent sabotage for what it is ... jealousy cloaked in witty comebacks. It shameful and serves Burgess poorly.
On a side note I can only state that, if those photographic artifacts where really cracks, I to this date have yet to encounter anybody who would be incapalbe of spotting this on the actual instrument. No expert replaces or substitutes common sense.

Musicalk, you are a courageous and lucky young lady. Thank you for sharing your beautiful instrument with us and please accept our best of wishes for the competition next week.
I sincerely hope some of these ramblings have not upset you too much and do not keep you from enjoying what you have and do and sharing it with others.

Come back and let us know what happens!

[colledge]

I have taken the time to read throught the thread and I can only agree with Colledge.

This thread is about a gorgeous modern viola and the adventures of a 16 year old woman who commissioned it. Reporting back after a couple of years is priceless information to those of us interested in small violas or in commissioning instruments from one of today's leading makers.

Less interesting is the pathetic spectacle of one modern maker trying to divert well deserved praise from his colleagues. Alf's fine work and professional demeanor is obvious in both the photos and in the owner's written account. Make no mistake, we see disingenuously innocent sabotage for what it is ... jealousy cloaked in witty comebacks. It shameful and serves Burgess poorly.
On a side note I can only state that, if those photographic artifacts where really cracks, I to this date have yet to encounter anybody who would be incapalbe of spotting this on the actual instrument. No expert replaces or substitutes common sense.

Musicalk, you are a courageous and lucky young lady. Thank you for sharing your beautiful instrument with us and please accept our best of wishes for the competition next week.
I sincerely hope some of these ramblings have not upset you too much and do not keep you from enjoying what you have and do and sharing it with others.

Come back and let us know what happens!

Don't misunderstand this. Burgess didn't suggest there were cracks in this instrument. Someone else did. He just took the ridiculous and ran with it for fun. (Did Gregg Alf deliver a new violin with 4 big cracks in the top and boastfully photograph it? ) Of course not.

[David Burgess]

I have taken the time to read throught the thread and I can only agree with Colledge.

This thread is about a gorgeous modern viola and the adventures of a 16 year old woman who commissioned it. Reporting back after a couple of years is priceless information to those of us interested in small violas or in commissioning instruments from one of today's leading makers.

Less interesting is the pathetic spectacle of one modern maker trying to divert well deserved praise from his colleagues. Alf's fine work and professional demeanor is obvious in both the photos and in the owner's written account. Make no mistake, we see disingenuously innocent sabotage for what it is ... jealousy cloaked in witty comebacks. It shameful and serves Burgess poorly.
On a side note I can only state that, if those photographic artifacts where really cracks, I to this date have yet to encounter anybody who would be incapalbe of spotting this on the actual instrument. No expert replaces or substitutes common sense.

"Servingaudio", how nice to have a mind reader weigh in.

You might benefit from reading the thread again, putting a tendency toward drama and dark thoughts aside for a moment.
I wasn't the first to mention that unusual photo. I wasn't the first to say that what it showed resembled cracks. I didn't say that they were cracks.

There is a photo in the first post showing something unusual, possibly a photo artifact, and that is what is being discussed. I don't happen to think it shows accurately depicted string reflections. Photo artifacts of some kind, maybe stemming from reflections, possibly. In questioning if they were cracks, I asked if the instrument had had an accident, and never mentioned or implied anything about inherent defects in the instrument or its construction. Nothing negative has been said or implied about Gregg or his work.

You may not be interested in the technical side of photography or instruments, but others of us are. Sometimes readers focus on what happens to be interesting to them in a thread, and it may not be the same thing that interests you. This is a discussion forum. You are free to skip over the parts you don't enjoy. It is normally the moderators who make decisions about how wide-ranging the discussions on a forum should be, and not a first-time poster.

Or you can pull a fanciful scenario from some dark, tortured part of your mind, and make anonymous personal attacks.

[Rokovak]

I'm sorry to have mentioned what I suspected might've been cracks.

[Dwight Brown]

I have never met Mr. Burgess, and I have only met Mr. Alf once at a conference 13 years ago. They live in the same town. I have never seen Mr. Burgess behave in anything but an honorable manner on the forum here, and he does not need my puny support in any way. They are both very celebrated makers. I think we need to let this thread die as it is getting personal. I think the lines on the picture show some evidence of what are called "jaggies" which are an artifact of digital photography. I put the picture into another program and blew it up a bunch and that is what it looks like to me.

Best To All,

Dwight

[David Burgess]

I'm sorry to have mentioned what I suspected might've been cracks.

Ah, don't worry about it. You made an interesting observation, and it resulted in an interesting discussion, involving interpretation of photographs, and damage to instruments, both typical and atypical.

There are those who use forums to act out anger and resentment. I suppose that's preferable to kicking the dog or beating the wife, so look at the bright side.

[Fellow]

Ah, don't worry about it. You made an interesting observation, and it resulted in an interesting discussion.

There are those who use forums to act out anger and resentment. I suppose that's preferable to kicking the dog or beating the wife, so look at the bright side.

++++++++++++++


I think those are bear craws. It adds value. Don't try to kick a mean dog. A terrible result it may bring.

[JohnCee]

It's never nice to see anonymous posters attacking those who have the balls to post under their own names.

[David Burgess]

Don't try to kick a mean dog. A terrible result it may bring.

Or your wife. Especially if she has a gun, or her name sounds anything like "Lorena Bobbitt".