Standard Viola lengths, Itlian v. US measurements..?? Options

[MingLoo]

Hi, good morning:

I have a customer in Italy who is telling me that the viola lengths in Italy are:

In centimeters:
41, 41.5 and 42

Whereas, in the US, we have the 16" and 16 1/2", which in centimeters is:

40.6 and 41.9

These don't match. Explanation??

Thanks in advance~!

[violins88]

Looks like a little math error or typo. 16.5 inches x 2.54cm/inch = 41.9cm

[MingLoo]

Looks like a little math error or typo. 16.5 inches x 2.54cm/inch = 41.9cm

Yes, it is 41.9 I fixed it.

Thank you!!

[MANFIO]

Hi! Viola sizes are not standardized, so viola makers can make instruments of different sizes.

Outside England and the USA we use the metric system, so Italian makers will give
you measurements in centimeters.

I make 43 and 41.8 centimeters violas, that is a bit less than 17 and 16 1/2 inches.

[MingLoo]

Hi! Viola sizes are not standardized, so viola makers can make instruments of different sizes.

Outside England and the USA we use the metric system, so Italian makers will give
you measurements in centimeters.

I make 43 and 41.8 centimeters violas, that is a bit less than 17 and 16 1/2 inches.

That's helpful, thank you. So the explanation is, viola sizes are not standardized. In the US, when we say 16" or 16 1/2", that's just an approximation?

[Hank Schutz]

I was unaware that there are any standard viola sizes. I have seen violas sold as "full size" ranging from 15 to 17+ inches. This leads to interesting descriptions such as "a small full-size viola" or "a large full-size viola." Most size quotations using engilsh units (inches) are no more precise than 1/8 inch. This equates to a metric imprecision of about 3 mm. One can routinely find full-size violins, where size is quite standardized, that vary by 3 mm.

So, if I were buying or selling a viola, I would be careful that the size is quoted accurately, and not worry particularly if it is a "standard" in this or that country.

HS

[DBurns]

I make 43 and 41.8 centimeters violas, that is a bit less than 17 and 16 1/2 inches.

Would you say that string length is the really important information when looking at a viola?

What are the string lengths for the two models you make?

[MANFIO]

Yes, it's an aproximation... when I show my violas to players in the USA I say they are 17 and 16 1/2
inches, but they are a bit less than that. The difference is question of milimeters and is hardly noticed by players.

[~ Ben Conover]

The old Cremonese inch was samller than the English inch.
These days most European makers work in Metric, centimetres.

The basic viola sizes were standardised a long time ago, in Italy.
Typically, a Contralto viola by Magginni such as the ex-coates of 1610, measures about 16.25 inches.
That particular playing length is comfortable and sounds good too, generally speaking.
The stop is 210mm and makes it even easier to play.

The viola sizes were previously much larger, with some violas up to 18 inches, as standard.
Amati and Ga. da Sa. made huge instruments that were mostly cut down.
As the violin and it's repetoire became important the role of the larger marching band viola declined, and so
the contralto viola as most people know it today, was born.

For a better explanation along the same lines, see Dilworth's Strad article.

[MANFIO]

DBurns asked:

"Would you say that string length is the really important information when looking at a viola?

What are the string lengths for the two models you make? "

Yes, string length is quite an important information. A too long string length may make the instrument
difficult to play, since you will have to strech your left hand fingers. String length may have an influence on tone too.

I follow Renè Morel's advice and make my violas with a 375 milimeters string length regardless of the size of the instrument, it's quite a confortable string length.

In the case the string length is much longer than 375 mm, perhaps its the case of trying light tension strings, in the case it's too much smaller than 375 mm, perhaps heavy gouge strings will work better.

But confort in playing may be influenced by other things, such as the weight of the instrume, how deep are the ribs, how wide are the upper bouts, etc.

Anyway, getting a good C string sound from a viola is allways difficult.

In Italy - and perhaps also in many parts of Europe - a 41.8 viola will be considered as a big viola.

[DBurns]

I follow Renè Morel's advice and make my violas with a 375 milimeters string length regardless of the size of the instrument, it's quite a confortable string length.
But confort in playing may be influenced by other things, such as the weight of the instrume, how deep are the ribs, how wide are the upper bouts, etc.
Anyway, getting a good C string sound from a viola is allways difficult.

I am surprised by that, I would have guessed that each instrument was going to have a different string length.
I'm not a player, except for the guitar, so I am lost with these things.

Thanks for the answer.

[MANFIO]

Yes, some makers will vary the string length according to the body length, but Renè Morel advises a fixed 375 for the string length (so that the stop does not vary too) and a 150 mm neck. But of courser there is some controversy about that.

Players get adapted to these dimentions quickly and that's a good thing when you are selling instruments.

Players in general will get a bit scared if the viola has a longer string length that they are used too. But they will adapt quickly if the string length is smaller.

[gowan]

That's helpful, thank you. So the explanation is, viola sizes are not standardized. In the US, when we say 16" or 16 1/2", that's just an approximation?

There is a large range of acceptable sizes for violas, as others have pointed out. There aren't many below about 15.5 inches because of the difficulty of getting a good C-string sound.

[~ Ben Conover]

Short fat violas sound good and long thin ones do too.

[Dean_Lapinel]

Short fat violas sound good and long thin ones do too.

I have chosen to make the short fat one. I like the 16" size with a good mid waist

I have heard that there seems to be a preference on the East coast (USA) for smaller violas.

[~ Ben Conover]

Well, some would say 16'' is plenty long enough.
There are more women on the east coast and more men on the west coast, of America.
Hot muffins and coffee are good on the east coast.

Short fat violas are easier to play, especially if you put the stop in the centre of the instrument at about 210mm.
I have big hands and I still find larger violas unwieldy especially if playing anything demanding.

The big old 17 or 18'' marching band violas of yesteryear were designed to be used as drone istruments, not
for the repetoire of the modern player.

[MingLoo]

You wrote:
>> The big old 17 or 18'' marching band violas of yesteryear were designed to be used as drone istruments, not for the repetoire of the modern player.

Ben, may I quote you? I need to add this to the FAQ, where I have the following rather lame statement:

The 13" viola is the same size as the full size (4/4) violin, and so is good for students changing over to viola, or adding viola. Most adults play a 4/4 violin (or possibly the rare 7/8 if they're very petite); most adults play a 16" or 16 1/2" viola, though 17" and even I think 18" violas exist.

[ http://beststudentviolins.com/StringCareSpecs.html#4 ]

The FAQ, after all, is just a starting place, and makes no pretensions of being complete. I just know nothing about the 18".

If you like, I could quote you and put a link back to your page. The FAQ gets hundreds of hits every day.

[MANFIO]

Hummmm .... ... Ben, there are many professional violists playing 17 inches viola, Michael Tree (of the Guarneri Quartet), Bruno Giuranna, Gerard Coussè and many many others, and they play modern and old music on them.

I made many 17 inches violas that are being played by professionals also.

[Jacob]

MingLoo, a 14" viola (not 13") is the same length (sort of) as a 4/4 violin.

[NewNewbie]

I wonder if each of these various viola players are playing the biggest String Length that they can handle competently?