Jump to content


Photo

Bausch Bow


  • Please log in to reply
53 replies to this topic

#1 mandm

mandm

    Member

  • Members
  • 61 posts
  • Locationsf

Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:51 PM

I've recently bought a German bow stamped L Bausch Leipzig from a reputable violin shop. I was wondering what your opinion is on this bow? Is it actually made by Ludwig Bausch? Is it worth it to get a certificate for a German bow??

 

6F5428FE-22AB-4CA0-9E38-1FAC995BC5E3-4392EBD4262-1352-4195-BA31-61905DB68460-43903593256-6971-40F8-AA9F-3E19C1DB4E4C-439C17EF4C6-7199-46C7-BEDB-561D888D0E0A-4399FB094A8-629A-4B74-94B5-9ADFCF42BF44-4390ADE855D-B73C-4110-844B-91A92469B075-439

 

Thank you.



#2 lyndon

lyndon

    still trying to post #4090

  • Members
  • 4089 posts
  • LocationWest of Cremona, East of Beijing

Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:05 PM

It looks brand new, which is not a good sign......


Taylor's Fine Violins, Redlands, S. California
Specializing in the research and restoration
of baroque, transitional, and modern violins.

http://www.violinist..._johann_taylor/
(violin shop ad, with links to instruments for sale, pictures of
violins I restored, and recordings and pics of my clavichords)

#3 mandm

mandm

    Member

  • Members
  • 61 posts
  • Locationsf

Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:06 AM

Well its not brand new (I think), but its in good condition.

46EA9483-DC7F-41D5-BC55-15C6D66E7AD0-4395EA2B992-A90D-4EC0-915B-8C262E898849-4394137D108-B1C7-4880-BF49-DD9B641A88A6-439



#4 lyndon

lyndon

    still trying to post #4090

  • Members
  • 4089 posts
  • LocationWest of Cremona, East of Beijing

Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:25 AM

I'm not very knowledgable on bows, but I think the better Bausch go for $2000 and up, just a guess though, It doesn't look like the cheap production "bausch" which aren't worth much, but I'm telling you, if it is new, its going to be Chinese, I don't think there's any Bausch still in business in Germany, but I'm not even sure of that. We have quite a few bow experts here on this forum, so please wait patiently for some response, and don't take my musing too seriously!!


Taylor's Fine Violins, Redlands, S. California
Specializing in the research and restoration
of baroque, transitional, and modern violins.

http://www.violinist..._johann_taylor/
(violin shop ad, with links to instruments for sale, pictures of
violins I restored, and recordings and pics of my clavichords)

#5 Bruce Carlson

Bruce Carlson

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • 2197 posts
  • LocationCremona

Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:25 AM

I've recently bought a German bow stamped L Bausch Leipzig from a reputable violin shop. I was wondering what your opinion is on this bow? Is it actually made by Ludwig Bausch? Is it worth it to get a certificate for a German bow??

 

Thank you.

There are at least two of the four members of the Bausch family who used the stamp L.BAUSCH LEIPZIG and perhaps continued to be used even after the Bausch family was no longer producing bows. This makes for a lot of confusion so you should show it to a competent bow expert such as Yung Chin in the U.S. collaborator with Klaus Grünke; one of the top experts on this school. See Grünke's article on Christoph Nürnberger in the latest 'the Strad'.



#6 lyndon

lyndon

    still trying to post #4090

  • Members
  • 4089 posts
  • LocationWest of Cremona, East of Beijing

Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:29 AM

See, there's one of them experts already, thanks Bruce.


Taylor's Fine Violins, Redlands, S. California
Specializing in the research and restoration
of baroque, transitional, and modern violins.

http://www.violinist..._johann_taylor/
(violin shop ad, with links to instruments for sale, pictures of
violins I restored, and recordings and pics of my clavichords)

#7 vathek

vathek

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • 574 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:42 AM

mandm: how does it play? Wood doesn't look like pernambuco, almost looks flamed from the pics. It does look awfully new.



#8 Omobono

Omobono

    '99er

  • Members
  • 3454 posts
  • Location130°E

Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:00 AM

I picked up a similar looking bow with such a stamp (L.BAUSCH LEIPZIG) but my guess there is a wide range of quality among them.

Mine is a pretty ordinary stick.

Hope you have a good one!



Omobono: 12th Century citizen of Cremona
and patron saint of its craftsmen.

#9 vclatl

vclatl

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • 639 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:44 AM

I don't hold myself out as any kind of bow expert, but as a player with a great deal of experience I'll tell you that 5-8 years ago I was offered a pretty Bausch* by a reputable violin shop in Philly/New Jersey area.  If memory serves, the price was in the neighborhood of $15,000. 

You can always hope.  Also, of course, follow Bruce's advice above^^^.  I think he's the closest thing to a bow expert here on MN.

 

* = don't worry, I hadn't heard of Bausch either!


"I was mis-informed."


#10 Nicolas Temino

Nicolas Temino

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • 609 posts
  • LocationUnder the sun.

Posted 10 April 2013 - 11:34 AM

It looks brand new, which is not a good sign......

So new means bad? OMG!


World is getting short of genius: Mozart died, Einstein died, and I have a headache.

#11 Bruce Carlson

Bruce Carlson

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • 2197 posts
  • LocationCremona

Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:10 PM

See, there's one of them experts already, thanks Bruce.

 

Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves, or we know where we can find information upon it.


Samuel Johnson



#12 martin swan

martin swan

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • 3256 posts
  • LocationScottish Borders

Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:12 PM

Looks very nice. Slightly confused by the stamp - as Bruce has said, L Bausch Leipzig would normally be mid-19th century, some of the priciest German bows going (though $15,000 is really top dollar), but this looks more like mid-20th century good quality Bausch workshop. Is it definitely an L? I have a very nice "Bausch Leipzig" from around 1930 which has a > before the word bausch and a < after leipzig ....

A photo of the underslide would be useful, showing the position and type of screws, but the button would date it (if original) - the narrow ebony centre ring isn't that common and looks 1950s, similarly the design of the eye.

If that's the general date, the lapping looks like it might be original.

The wood looks fantastic - do you have reason to doubt the shop you bought it from?

Might we ask where you are based? The person I use for certificates for good German bows is Hans-Karl Schmidt in Dresden.



#13 Bruce Carlson

Bruce Carlson

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • 2197 posts
  • LocationCremona

Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:43 PM

I have a very nice "Bausch Leipzig" from around 1930 which has a > before the word bausch and a < after leipzig ....

 - the narrow ebony centre ring isn't that common and looks 1950s, similarly the design of the eye.

The BAUSCH LEIPZIG brand was also used by the Paulus family after they took over the Bausch workshop.

 

The proportionately narrow ebony center ring of the adjuster and the design of the eye are already common features on Bausch bows as early as c.1840. This type of eye can also be seen in Knopf who furnished bows to Bausch.

 

To the original poster: Is the mother of pearl slide on the bottom of the frog lined with silver?

 

Bruce



#14 martin swan

martin swan

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • 3256 posts
  • LocationScottish Borders

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:02 PM

I stand corrected! In fact the now famous Knopf smashed by airport officials had both of these features ....

 

I was thinking of this type of thing ...

http://www.bromptons...ed-tourte-.html

 

I take the point about the pearl eye, but is this type of rather lurid abalone to be found in earlier Bausch bows? I suppose it could have been replaced. I associate this variety (perhaps wrongly) with more recent German production.

 

Anyway, I think it's one hell of a bow!



#15 mandm

mandm

    Member

  • Members
  • 61 posts
  • Locationsf

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:15 PM

Thank you for your help Bruce.

The mother pearl is not lined with silver.

 

The BAUSCH LEIPZIG brand was also used by the Paulus family after they took over the Bausch workshop.

 

The proportionately narrow ebony center ring of the adjuster and the design of the eye are already common features on Bausch bows as early as c.1840. This type of eye can also be seen in Knopf who furnished bows to Bausch.

 

To the original poster: Is the mother of pearl slide on the bottom of the frog lined with silver?

 

Bruce

 

 I am based out of san francisco bay area. Bought this bow from a reputable shop initial RF, was told it was made by Ludwig Bausch. Owner said Paul Siefried has seen the bow and can provide a certificate. Another expert who is an authority on kittel in san francisco does not think it is made by Bausch, but it is a bow from his shop. He claims that there are only about 5 or 6 bows made by ludwig bausch in the world. He also showed me some receipts showing Bausch ordering bows from knopf. He claimed that Bausch was like vuillaume, who had makers craft bows for him.

 

Looks very nice. Slightly confused by the stamp - as Bruce has said, L Bausch Leipzig would normally be mid-19th century, some of the priciest German bows going (though $15,000 is really top dollar), but this looks more like mid-20th century good quality Bausch workshop. Is it definitely an L? I have a very nice "Bausch Leipzig" from around 1930 which has a > before the word bausch and a < after leipzig ....

A photo of the underslide would be useful, showing the position and type of screws, but the button would date it (if original) - the narrow ebony centre ring isn't that common and looks 1950s, similarly the design of the eye.

If that's the general date, the lapping looks like it might be original.

The wood looks fantastic - do you have reason to doubt the shop you bought it from?

Might we ask where you are based? The person I use for certificates for good German bows is Hans-Karl Schmidt in Dresden.



#16 mandm

mandm

    Member

  • Members
  • 61 posts
  • Locationsf

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:27 PM

This bow's asking price was in the ball park, but not that high.

I don't hold myself out as any kind of bow expert, but as a player with a great deal of experience I'll tell you that 5-8 years ago I was offered a pretty Bausch* by a reputable violin shop in Philly/New Jersey area.  If memory serves, the price was in the neighborhood of $15,000. 

You can always hope.  Also, of course, follow Bruce's advice above^^^.  I think he's the closest thing to a bow expert here on MN.

 

* = don't worry, I hadn't heard of Bausch either!



#17 martin swan

martin swan

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • 3256 posts
  • LocationScottish Borders

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:54 PM

Are you asking the question out of historical interest or in order to establish a fair value?

If the former, the general view is that almost all are from Knopf (and specifically all later ones) but I would love to know more from Bruce or anyone else who has studied this.

if the latter, I imagine it makes very little difference exactly who made it ...



#18 mandm

mandm

    Member

  • Members
  • 61 posts
  • Locationsf

Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:11 PM

Historical interest. I bought it bow already, so it makes no difference and too late to establish a fair value for the bow.

Are you asking the question out of historical interest or in order to establish a fair value?

If the former, the general view is that almost all are from Knopf (and specifically all later ones) but I would love to know more from Bruce or anyone else who has studied this.

if the latter, I imagine it makes very little difference exactly who made it ...



#19 Bruce Carlson

Bruce Carlson

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • 2197 posts
  • LocationCremona

Posted 10 April 2013 - 11:15 PM

Historical interest. I bought it bow already, so it makes no difference and too late to establish a fair value for the bow.

Paul Siefried and I worked together at Weisshaars. He's a great guy and I'm sure he could help.



#20 lyndon

lyndon

    still trying to post #4090

  • Members
  • 4089 posts
  • LocationWest of Cremona, East of Beijing

Posted 10 April 2013 - 11:20 PM

So new means bad? OMG!

No of course not, New means bad if it has an old stamp Like L Bausch but is brand new, then its a forgery, usually quite cheap, and probably made in China, not as it appears in this case from the input we're getting.


Taylor's Fine Violins, Redlands, S. California
Specializing in the research and restoration
of baroque, transitional, and modern violins.

http://www.violinist..._johann_taylor/
(violin shop ad, with links to instruments for sale, pictures of
violins I restored, and recordings and pics of my clavichords)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users