34 replies to this topic

[Stanley5184]

As you may i know, i've purchased a white viola off ebay and the first thing i'll be doing is graduating the plates. I've started to plan ahead before it arrives! I've looked around and havn't found any graduation plans for viola but there are many for violins and I dont think it should differ that much so i've created an average using about 5 different recomendations and here it is. Sorry about the picture quality, its in pencil so i'll be able to make adjustments

Any comments....things to change? I know the ideal dimensions will be vastly different for each instrument but i'm not expecting a strad. Just a decent sounding viola once this is done. I'm not sure that i'll be doing plate tuning as i dont have the instuments and all but if you guys hihgly recommend it and think its the best thing since sliced bread then i'll do further investigations and have a go at it. This is my first instrument so it doesn't have to be perfect....i still have 50 years ahead of me!

One other question.....would i be able to do all this with just a strad punch machine and not have to purchase a dial caliper?

Thanks guys

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[Doug Marples]

Exact final graduation numbers will vary depending on the qualities of wood you're using so a good practice might be to start by going for conservative numbers first, then considering further reductions depending on plate weight, stiffness, etc. In general, I think the numbers you're proposing are going to be too thin. Also, you need a caliper to work accurately.

[robertdo]

As for the calipers, you can just buy a $15 dial and make a wood body, insert the dial and a stop opposite and you have a caliper that is good enough for thicknessing your plates or check after the punching machine.

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[mdaddona]

As for the calipers, you can just buy a $15 dial and make a wood body, insert the dial and a stop opposite and you have a caliper that is good enough for thicknessing your plates or check after the punching machine.

like it.

[Will L]

Stanley,

The graduation of the top should not be done like the back; that is, with the similar circles like you've drawn. It should be consistent all over, except around the Fs as you have shown on your drawing, and maybe around the post area.

Just to give some rough and general numbers, taken from Sacconi:

Viola:
Top: 2.5
Back: 5, 4, 3.5, and around 2.4-2.6 in the lungs.

About 3.5 near the ribs of the top and back, except thicker in the C-bouts (4.5, top 4, back)

[Mountain Luthier]

I'd be curious about what you have to start with.
Map it.

[robertdo]

I think the height of the ribs will have to come into play too. the same graduations might not be good with low or high ribs.

[Conor Russell]

Unless you have very good spruce, and arching, I think that 2.5 all over might be thin for a viola. I wouldn't go much below 3mm in the centre, and perhaps a little less in the lungs. It isn't a big deal to thin it out a little later, if needs be. In my view a thin top on a viola can cause notes to 'pop' out and take from the evenness of the sound. Plenty of wood, and some good playing will more likely yield a rich, warm sound in the long term. And violas are long term things!

[captainhook]

Maybe I'm unusual, but I generally check out the instrument before I decide what it needs. Hard to do before you've had it in hand.

[Stanley5184]

As for the calipers, you can just buy a $15 dial and make a wood body, insert the dial and a stop opposite and you have a caliper that is good enough for thicknessing your plates or check after the punching machine.

Where would i be able to get one for $15 in Australia? Any sites online?

Stanley,

The graduation of the top should not be done like the back; that is, with the similar circles like you've drawn. It should be consistent all over, except around the Fs as you have shown on your drawing, and maybe around the post area.

Just to give some rough and general numbers, taken from Sacconi:

Viola:
Top: 2.5
Back: 5, 4, 3.5, and around 2.4-2.6 in the lungs.

About 3.5 near the ribs of the top and back, except thicker in the C-bouts (4.5, top 4, back)

Thanks alot for those....i'll change the plans and post the new ones shortly

I'd be curious about what you have to start with.
Map it.

Sure will, i'll make a blog type thing on my whole experience and the quality of the cheap white viola

Thanks alot guys, i really appreciate all the help and i'll definately pass it on when i become as experienced as you guys....maybe in 20 years time....i hope

[Stanley5184]

This was the cheapest dial indicator i could find - http://www.ebay.com/...=item231f92f3d6

Would this be alright to use? Anyone found a cheaper one that works?

Thanks again

[Stanley5184]

Ok heres the new adjusted drawing....does it still need to be thicker? I was searching thicknesses and found this - http://www.dalemfg.com/violin_011.htm he claims to get consistently good results, and his plates seem really really thin and the top plate goes from 2-3.5mm instead of one constant thickness. What are your thoughts on it? the back plate is 1.9-3.8mm thats well under the 5 suggested by you all. I understand that its a violin but is there that much difference between the two instruments?

Thanks again and sorry about the sort of double post

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[robertdo]

This was the cheapest dial indicator i could find - http://www.ebay.com/...=item231f92f3d6

Would this be alright to use? Anyone found a cheaper one that works?

Thanks again

this is the one I used. It's good enough.
the map showed on the link is indeed for a violin and seems already too thin for a violin. And as others said, better leave the top a little on the thick side so that you can later take it off and take off some wood.
Also Captainhook is right when he said that the first step would be to decide if regraduation of your viola is really necessary...

[Stanley5184]

Also Captainhook is right when he said that the first step would be to decide if regraduation of your viola is really necessary...

Yeah, but it doesn't hurt to plan ahead right?

[Stanley5184]

An update:

I've purchased this: http://www.ebay.com/...=item231f92f3d6 to make the dial caliper. Hopefully it arrives within a couple of weeks!

What do you guys think about the latest graduation plan....i PM'ed manfio and for his violas, he uses aloot thicker dimension(never below 3mm and 6-7 towards the middle of the back plate. Should i stick with what he recommends or go with sacconi?

Thanks again

[John Cockburn]

An update:

I've purchased this: http://www.ebay.com/...=item231f92f3d6 to make the dial caliper. Hopefully it arrives within a couple of weeks!

What do you guys think about the latest graduation plan....i PM'ed manfio and for his violas, he uses aloot thicker dimension(never below 3mm and 6-7 towards the middle of the back plate. Should i stick with what he recommends or go with sacconi?

Thanks again

A clock with longer travel would have been more useful, to enable you to also measure arching heights. Also, 0.01 graduations is too fine, you really want 0.1mm.
Sorry not to mention this before you bought it.

[Stanley5184]

damm.....Would you have a link of the one you recommend so i can buy it. Thanks

[John Cockburn]

damm.....Would you have a link of the one you recommend so i can buy it. Thanks

http://shop.mapra.co.uk/kfer-dial-gauge-m-10-c---reading-01-mm-75-p.asp

[Ernie Martel]

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[Stanley5184]

Thanks but no thanks....i was hoping to make one to save a bit of money. All i need is the dial indicator and i got alot of wood and brain power lying around to make something up once i get the once crucial part.....BTW, what do you think of the graduation plan?

Thanks