152 replies to this topic

[Melvin Goldsmith]

A colleague, John Harte, recently contacted me regarding this webpage:

http://www.bristowvi...arte/4538239041

This is not John's work....!!!

In my opinion the mentioned label has no place in this instrument.

[lyndon]

isnt that the famous flourescent magic marker ground coat!!

[Jeffrey Holmes]

Although there aren't many situations I'd absolutely advocate that a label is removed from a violin, the use of a label of a living maker in a fake is one of those times. I hope the dealer in question sees this post.

[John Harte]

Melvin thank you for posting this.
I guess that it’s time for me to stop being a Maestronet lurker and emerge from under my rock…

Two points to add to Melvin’s post:

1. In early March 2012 the violin featured was advertised as being “by John B. Harte, Rutland Street, New Zealand“. Following contact with Daniel Bristow, the wording was changed to what now appears. The fact that I did not make this violin is not being contested.

2. In spite of my requests, Daniel Bristow has said that he will not remove the label, has not removed my name from his website and has not supplied me with the name of who sold him the violin. He has not replied to my last email where I repeated these requests.

I believe that it is important the label be removed from the violin at this stage as it will only be a matter of time before it reappears somewhere else as having been made by me.

Unfortunately for many of us, our labels will likely be the only means of identifying our work in the future. Beyond my lifetime, identifying this case of mislabelling on a factual basis will disappear, leaving opinion to rule the day.

I cannot understand the reluctance to remove this label. It seems nonsensical.

I look forward to your comments.


John Harte

[Jeffrey Holmes]

John; Send the dealer this thread.

BTW; there may be laws copyright laws that are being broken in this case. Wish I was a lawyer... I'm not... but if I were in this situation, I might call mine.

[John Harte]

Jeffrey,

Thank you for your comments.
I will send on this thread as you suggest!

The legal issues involved do interest me. My best guess is that there may be no international standard and that, in this particular case, being familiar with the specifics of English law would be necessary.

I am curious as to how widespread this form of mislabelling is.

John

[Melvin Goldsmith]

I would be furious if this happened to me.People have gone to prison for selling faked moderns

[jacobsaunders]

Nothing new, I`m afraid!

http://www.maestrone...howtopic=325482

http://www.maestrone...howtopic=325472

[lyndon]

you might set up a dummy ebay account, buy the violin, never pay for it, and leave horrible feedback, much cheaper than taking him to court

[Flyboy]

Melvin thank you for posting this.
I guess that it’s time for me to stop being a Maestronet lurker and emerge from under my rock…

Two points to add to Melvin’s post:

1. In early March 2012 the violin featured was advertised as being “by John B. Harte, Rutland Street, New Zealand“. Following contact with Daniel Bristow, the wording was changed to what now appears. The fact that I did not make this violin is not being contested.

2. In spite of my requests, Daniel Bristow has said that he will not remove the label, has not removed my name from his website and has not supplied me with the name of who sold him the violin. He has not replied to my last email where I repeated these requests.

I believe that it is important the label be removed from the violin at this stage as it will only be a matter of time before it reappears somewhere else as having been made by me.

Unfortunately for many of us, our labels will likely be the only means of identifying our work in the future. Beyond my lifetime, identifying this case of mislabelling on a factual basis will disappear, leaving opinion to rule the day.

I cannot understand the reluctance to remove this label. It seems nonsensical.

I look forward to your comments.


John Harte

Since in the eyes of the law you are the undisputed authority on your own work, that actually puts you in a somewhat advantageous position compared to a consumer. If you don't actively enforce your own trademark/copyright through appropriate legal avenues, you can't rely or expect anyone else to enforce it (such as having them remove the label). If you haven't already done so, the first steps with all such matters is consult a competent attorney and report this to the appropriate authorities. This will legally establish that you have at least attempted to defend your intellectual property and allow you to pursue further legal action, including but not limited to seizure.

This is as good a place to start as any. There is even live chat available on the site.
http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud_protection/counterfeit_goods

Edited by Flyboy, 17 July 2012 - 06:29 AM.

[David Burgess]

I am curious as to how widespread this form of mislabelling is.

John

Widespread enough. I would want the label removed too.
A dealer in China contacted me about the violin below, which was offered to him for sale. If a dealer doesn't know a living maker's work, contacting the maker is basic "due diligence" as far as I'm concerned, and not that difficult to do. I wonder why musicians would want to do business with a dealer who hasn't taken some basic steps to ensure the authenticity of what they sell, and isn't willing to "eat it" when they make a mistake?

I suppose this fiddle is still running around somewhere. Maybe I should check the Bristow Violins website for it from time to time?

[lyndon]

thats not a david burgess from ann arbor, thats the chinese craftsman who just happens to be called david burgess san, much like the chinese workmen we hill who makes those fine bows on ebay, theres a lyndon johnston taylor that plays a stradivari violin loaned to him by the la philharmonic, no joke, can i sue him for using my name?? could i sue him for the stradivari, actually hes a much better violin player than i am a repairman let alone a player, maybe i could threaten a lawsuit if he doesnt buy some violins from me for his students

finally david i suggest you convince the chinese burgess that you really are hulk hogan and youve booked a flight to china to "settle the score" not to mention spend time with their animals, thatll make them think twice before they slap a burgess label in their cheap violin

[DGerald StephenR]

This past Friday I had a customer come into the shop with a "Tetsuo Matsuda" labelled instrument he was considering buying from a friend...bought in Korea for roughly $1800..typical Chinese instrument..

This is indeed a crime that happens far too often for some of these hard working makers...

[Don Noon]

finally david i suggest you convince the chinese burgess that you really are hulk hogan and youve booked a flight to china to "settle the score"

... and immediately be slapped with a copyright infringement lawsuit, as "David Burgess" was likely copyrighted by the Chinese maker there.

[hk1997]

you might set up a dummy ebay account, buy the violin, never pay for it, and leave horrible feedback, much cheaper than taking him to court

The seller should have little problem getting that feedback removed.

On the positive side, what a surreal feeling to have your work spoofed. It says that you matter.

[saintjohnbarleycorn]

The seller should have little problem getting that feedback removed.

On the positive side, what a surreal feeling to have your work spoofed. It says that you matter.

I think the bad feedback will last for 6 months to a year and can not be removed, it happened to a friend of mine , he talked to ebay they said tough luck.

[hk1997]

I think the bad feedback will last for 6 months to a year and can not be removed, it happened to a friend of mine , he talked to ebay they said tough luck.

You might be right on that. According to eBay, it's a legal issue even if it's totally undeserved. The only way they can take feedback off is if profanity is used.

[John Harte]

Thank you all for your comments.
You make a number of interesting points.

Jacob, thank you for listing the threads.
It’s a shame that your father’s name has been caught up in this.
He was a very nice person who willingly gave. I met him at the VSA Competition in 1994 where he was one of the judges.
I have started working my way through these threads but have some way to go. What I have read so far is disturbing...

David, I much appreciate your comments and agree whole heartedly regarding "due diligence".
As you say, this is not that difficult to do.
In my case, had the shop owner looked in any reasonably recent Strad Directory, alarm bells should have rung. In fact, the address, including the format provided on the label, should have been enough to cause concern.

On a different topic, is there a guide as to how to include multiple quotes of previous postings within a single new post?
I'm totally new to this....

John

[Flyboy]

On a different topic, is there a guide as to how to include multiple quotes of previous postings within a single new post?
I'm totally new to this....

Yes, it's a bit laborious. Open a second instance/window with your browser, go to the post you wish to reply to, click on "reply," and manually copy what shows up in the text edit box & paste it to the edit box of the first window.

Since you're still learning your way around the forum UI, for the time being I recommend that you just quote from single posts until you get the hang of it.

[David Burgess]

Yes, it's a bit laborious. Open a second instance/window with your browser, go to the post you wish to reply to, click on "reply," and manually copy what shows up in the text edit box & paste it to the edit box of the first window.

Since you're still learning your way around the forum UI, for the time being I recommend that you just quote from single posts until you get the hang of it.

A simpler way is to hit "multiquote" on the bottom of each post you want to respond to, and then hit "reply" at the very bottom of the page. All the quotes will show up.

John, I empathize with your dilemma, so just let me know how I can help better.

Bristow Violins, this thread will probably show up early in a search under your name within a few days, so what would you like to do at this point?