25 replies to this topic

[Tom R]

I would just like to get some of your thoughts on tailpiece selection in regards to tone. I've read that lighter is better but I've also read that some instruments respond better to a heavier one.

I'm also curious about the effect different woods/materials (ebony, boxwood, metal, etc) have on tone and what criteria, if any, one would use in deciding which would best?

[Torbjörn Zethelius]

Avoid ultra light TP, unless your violin has 'special needs'. You can use wood of any kind that you like. I prefer a French model TP. The TP is not the most critical IMO.

[Michael_Molnar]

Actually, I feel that the size of the tailpiece is more important. The tailpiece must allow room for the after-length to bridge (55.5mm) plus 3-4mm between the saddle to tailpiece bottom. I also heard this from more knowledgeable makers.

That being said, I would imagine that the total mass of the tailpiece must be kept low. I avoid adding heavy tuners. I use only a small e-string tuner.

Next, and I have no experience with this, is the adjuster (hanger). I use the nylon Sacconi. I have been told to try the new thin steel adjuster. Anyone have experience with that?

I too use the French model tailpiece.

[arglebargle]

Next, and I have no experience with this, is the adjuster (hanger). I use the nylon Sacconi. I have been told to try the new thin steel adjuster. Anyone have experience with that?

Not with the steel, but I've recently started using kevlar cord on all my wooden tailpieces. You can get it on Amazon (used for spearfishing) for not a lot of money.
I find it gives just a little clearer sound, and I like the fact that it stays right where you put it.

[Roderick Quiros]

Here are a couple of articles on the matter:

http://follandviolin...cles/tailpiece/


http://follandviolin...ilpiece-hanger/

[Roger Hargrave]

Not with the steel, but I've recently started using kevlar cord on all my wooden tailpieces. You can get it on Amazon (used for spearfishing) for not a lot of money.
I find it gives just a little clearer sound, and I like the fact that it stays right where you put it.

I like Kevlar cord too, but it is expensive. I looked on the net some time ago but could not find any black Kevlar. Lots on sailing and kite sites, but all the wrong colours. Also finding Kevlar of the right dimensions is difficult. Where exactly did you find it on Amazon? And Micheal is correct, within reason, the size is probably the most important factor. Isn't it always?

[MeyerFittings]

Hi Roger
Try looking for Specta chord insted of Kevlar. I think that is really what is being used. Archery and backpacking supply.
http://www.zpacks.co...ctra_cord.shtml
The stuff I recieved to play with was white with a black woven dacron cover. If you don't find what you are looking for PM me. I did a bunch of research on this ten or so years ago and may still have some contacts for material. I'' have to dig.
How's the golf game going? If I only could putt...

[Roger Hargrave]

Hi Roger
Try looking for Specta chord insted of Kevlar. I think that is really what is being used. Archery and backpacking supply.
http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/spectra_cord.shtml
The stuff I recieved to play with was white with a black woven dacron cover. If you don't find what you are looking for PM me. I did a bunch of research on this ten or so years ago and may still have some contacts for material. I'' have to dig.
How's the golf game going? If I only could putt...

Thanks for the info. Actually at my rate of aging half a yard of the stuff will probably outlast me. But as one of the best ever makers of fine fittings, what do you think about its qualities?
As for the golf we should get out there together and compare my regular three puts with yours. Or maybe have a 'who can miss the shortest put' competition.

[match]

I like Kevlar cord too, but it is expensive. I looked on the net some time ago but could not find any black Kevlar. Lots on sailing and kite sites, but all the wrong colours. Also finding Kevlar of the right dimensions is difficult. Where exactly did you find it on Amazon? And Micheal is correct, within reason, the size is probably the most important factor. Isn't it always?

Colour and dimension is right here:
http://www.spiderbeam.com/product_info.php?info=p194_50m Rolle Kevlar Abspannleine.html&XTCsid=xelnbilmjtzqsjl
Don´t know the quality, but perhaps it´s worth a try.

[MeyerFittings]

Thanks for the info. Actually at my rate of aging half a yard of the stuff will probably outlast me. But as one of the best ever makers of fine fittings, what do you think about its qualities?
As for the golf we should get out there together and compare my regular three puts with yours. Or maybe have a 'who can miss the shortest put' competition.

I looked into this many years ago when I heard they were discontinuing kevlar bycycle spokes because they transmitted too much road noise. I went to the factory on a vacation and they set me up with the chord manufacturer. There was nothing on the market at that time. I played around with it for a while but I was trying to figure out a dfferent way of adjusting them without using knots. Anyway, in my usual keen economic sensibility, I moved on to something else, and dropped the ball. All my opinions about the efficacy of these guts is purely hearsay so not worth much, Im afraid. Good idea though. Do you ever use pure gut?

I would absolutely kick your butt in the missed short putts contest. Let's hope we get the chance to find out wenn es irgend möglich ist.

[Roger Hargrave]

Do you ever use pure gut? I would absolutely kick your butt in the missed short putts contest.

I used it all the time until about the mid 1980's. I do quite like it and occasionally I still use it, but it is somewhat time consuming. I have not the slightest idea as to the acoustic value of these various materials and I am afraid to ask for fear of starting another blind test marathon, that will be of no value to either man or beast. Only I do know that Jacob Saunders loves these comparison debates, so maybe if anyone has any ideas they can mail them directly to him, or failing that to David Burgess.
PS. My butt is big enough to take a good kicking.

[Bruce Carlson]

If I only could putt...

Avoid using the wrists and rotate the shoulders (except on really long putts). Think smooth and follow through (no jabbing).
Hold the club with your hands oriented as if you were clapping. If you twist your hands around on the grip the blade face could move during the putting stroke.
No tension grip, just enough to hold the club.
If you think your right hand is steering the club then reverse the grip with the right above and the left below.
Up-hill you can be aggressive and there is less break.
Down-hill stay light and allow for more break.
Side-hill, good luck, but if you're accurate you can be a little aggressive and reduce the effect of the break.
Finally, pick a spot in front of you where you want the ball to pass over on its way to the cup and try to visualize the path the ball will roll.

EDIT: Reading greens is another story.
One of the real secrets to good putting is landing the ball on the green where the putting is easiest for that pin placement. You have to consciously think about it on your approach shot, chip or pitch. Likewise with your first putt if you're far away from the hole.

Check this out: Putting

Bruce

[nathan slobodkin]

Avoid ultra light TP, unless your violin has 'special needs'. You can use wood of any kind that you like. I prefer a French model TP. The TP is not the most critical IMO.

Are you saying not to use excessively light tailpieces or are you referring to the comercial "ultra-lite"tailpieces? If the latter I use these extensively on student instruments and have had no negative feed back from teachers. I have just recently however had two of the sacconi style tail festeners which come with them break which I beleive is from the nylon being kinked in packaging. I am now using nylon hangers from a seperate source on these until the packaging issue is solved.

[duane88]

I've had a number of the black nylon tailguts that come with the wittner ultra tailpieces break in the past year. The clear ones don't seem to. They break at the bottom of the end button. I was getting them from Connoly, and I think that if I have had a small number break, then I must not be the only one!

As for the Kevlar, it does sound different, but I can't get the knot tied with the precision that I want to get the afterlength where I want it. I also think that some instruments need the section of the string behind the bridge dampened more or need a stiffer feel(for lack of the real words to describe it...), so I think that perhaps the length is more important than the weight.

However, if you put 4 metal fine tuners on any tailpiece, all bets are off.

Hey Eric, ever try putting on Absinthe...it might help!

[MeyerFittings]

Avoid using the wrists and rotate the shoulders (except on really long putts). Think smooth and follow through (no jabbing).
Hold the club with your hands oriented as if you were clapping. If you twist your hands around on the grip the blade face could move during the putting stroke.
No tension grip, just enough to hold the club.
If you think your right hand is steering the club then reverse the grip with the right above and the left below.
Up-hill you can be aggressive and there is less break.
Down-hill stay light and allow for more break.
Side-hill, good luck, but if you're accurate you can be a little aggressive and reduce the effect of the break.
Finally, pick a spot in front of you where you want the ball to pass over on its way to the cup and try to visualize the path the ball will roll.

EDIT: Reading greens is another story.
One of the real secrets to good putting is landing the ball on the green where the putting is easiest for that pin placement. You have to consciously think about it on your approach shot, chip or pitch. Likewise with your first putt if you're far away from the hole.

Check this out: Putting

Bruce

Jeez, Is that all there is to it?

[MeyerFittings]

I've had a number of the black nylon tailguts that come with the wittner ultra tailpieces break in the past year. The clear ones don't seem to. They break at the bottom of the end button. I was getting them from Connoly, and I think that if I have had a small number break, then I must not be the only one!

As for the Kevlar, it does sound different, but I can't get the knot tied with the precision that I want to get the afterlength where I want it. I also think that some instruments need the section of the string behind the bridge dampened more or need a stiffer feel(for lack of the real words to describe it...), so I think that perhaps the length is more important than the weight.

However, if you put 4 metal fine tuners on any tailpiece, all bets are off.

Hey Eric, ever try putting on Absinthe...it might help!

Now that it's legal, the thrill has been dampened a bit.

[duane88]

Well, there is Absinthe, and then there is YOUR Absinthe...

[Roger Hargrave]

Well, there is Absinthe, and then there is YOUR Absinthe...

I was not sure what this meant until I looked it up. I found it in a quote "Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder".

[Torbjörn Zethelius]

Are you saying not to use excessively light tailpieces or are you referring to the comercial "ultra-lite"tailpieces? If the latter I use these extensively on student instruments and have had no negative feed back from teachers. I have just recently however had two of the sacconi style tail festeners which come with them break which I beleive is from the nylon being kinked in packaging. I am now using nylon hangers from a seperate source on these until the packaging issue is solved.

I was thinking of tailpieces that are "gutted" on the underside to reduce the weight. They are too light, or too flexible or something of that kind for regular violins.

[MeyerFittings]

I was not sure what this meant until I looked it up. I found it in a quote "Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder".

Or,
the fart go "HONNDA!)

Or, as per Oscar Wilde
The tart grow fonder.