132 replies to this topic

[vlado]

Are these three types of violin saddle used within certain time frames or by region (violin maker). Who knows more about it than is written in a old book?

[martin swan]

I don't think there are any hard&fast rules ...... and I am far from an authority
But
No. 3 - is this an accurate drawing? Normally the part inset into the bottom block is narrower than the part set into the belly. That design I associate mainly (but far from exclusively) with old German, also Scottish and to some extent English violins. I believe from a recent Maestronet thread that it's common in some Italian schools - I think Jacob said something to this effect. I'd be very interested to get more detail on that one ....
no. 2 is quite common in Hungarian instruments, some German, I have VERY rarely seen it on French violins, but I imagine it crops up in a lot more regions, possibly some Italian schools. One of the Hungarian makers I collaborate with does his saddles this way _ I've never asked him why, he's the only one out of 5 or 6 makers I work with.
no. 1 is a saddle, it would indicate absolutely nothing, since a violin from anywhere in the world might have this design

[Jeffrey Holmes]

No. 3... Normally the part inset into the bottom block is narrower than the part set into the belly. That design I associate mainly (but far from exclusively) with old German, also Scottish and to some extent English violins. I believe from a recent Maestronet thread that it's common in some Italian schools - I think Jacob said something to this effect. I'd be very interested to get more detail on that one ....

Martin; Look at a Pressenda...


Forty Two; I'm all for details, but I get the impression from the other thread that you may be trying to identify things by using them (the silver bullet method... which doesn't work well) and missing the big picture. Forgive me if I'm incorrect.

[martin swan]

Thanks Jeffrey - are there others?
I'm beginning to recall it might have been a Degani trait ....

[Jeffrey Holmes]

Thanks Jeffrey - are there others?

There are.

[martin swan]

You're such a flirt!

[vlado]

I don't think there are any hard&fast rules ...... and I am far from an authority
But
No. 3 - is this an accurate drawing? Normally the part inset into the bottom block is narrower than the part set into the belly. That design I associate mainly (but far from exclusively) with old German, also Scottish and to some extent English violins. I believe from a recent Maestronet thread that it's common in some Italian schools - I think Jacob said something to this effect. I'd be very interested to get more detail on that one ....
no. 2 is quite common in Hungarian instruments, some German, I have VERY rarely seen it on French violins, but I imagine it crops up in a lot more regions, possibly some Italian schools. One of the Hungarian makers I collaborate with does his saddles this way _ I've never asked him why, he's the only one out of 5 or 6 makers I work with.
no. 1 is a saddle, it would indicate absolutely nothing, since a violin from anywhere in the world might have this design

Thank you Martin.

[vlado]

Martin; Look at a Pressenda...


Forty Two; I'm all for details, but I get the impression from the other thread that you may be trying to identify things by using them (the silver bullet method... which doesn't work well) and missing the big picture. Forgive me if I'm incorrect.

Jeffrey,
I tried to do a few examples of images sat and uploaded. (I hope not to big).

[martin swan]

please get some more informed opinions - I was just trying to kick things off ......
I would also be very interested in learning more about this.

[Conor Russell]

Lots of Perry violins (Dublin) have the middle type, but much thinner; barely higher than the edgework. They're often badly distorted, the ebony having been bent by the pressure of the gut.

[martin swan]

I have a Perry (Kilkenny) from about 1790 in the house, saddle is as no. 1 ...

[robertdo]

I found this picture on the web, on a Amati violin

[martin swan]

that would have to be style no. 4 ......
and there are others

[Tommy]

What does a semi-circular saddle profile represent in terms of location or period? (see attached) Thank you. Tom

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[vlado]

I don't think there are any hard&fast rules ...... and I am far from an authority
But
No. 3 - is this an accurate drawing? Normally the part inset into the bottom block is narrower than the part set into the belly. That design I associate mainly (but far from exclusively) with old German, also Scottish and to some extent English violins. I believe from a recent Maestronet thread that it's common in some Italian schools - I think Jacob said something to this effect. I'd be very interested to get more detail on that one ....
no. 2 is quite common in Hungarian instruments, some German, I have VERY rarely seen it on French violins, but I imagine it crops up in a lot more regions, possibly some Italian schools. One of the Hungarian makers I collaborate with does his saddles this way _ I've never asked him why, he's the only one out of 5 or 6 makers I work with.
no. 1 is a saddle, it would indicate absolutely nothing, since a violin from anywhere in the world might have this design

Here is a saddle No.3.

[jacobsaunders]

The problems with the premise of this thread are that the list of 3 saddle species is most inadequate. With a little thought I can come to well over a dozen saddle variations. Further, saddles particularly of type 3, are apt to get broken when removing the belly and replaced, so that violins with original saddles are rather the exception than the norm. Also saddle variations do not seem to be exclusive to particular areas. Tommy, in Post # 14, for instance, shows a saddle form that would be both typical for the Hill workshop in the 20th C., but also for Jan Kulik in Prague in the 19th. C.

The box ticking approach to violin identification is both legitimate and fairly effective, but only when one has 7 or 8 different boxes to tick. Drawing conclusions from a single ticked box is treacherous, and will inevitably lead to ridiculous conclusions, cf. your “one piece belly” thread.

[Alberto R.]

2 more, del Gesú and Gragnani.

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[fiddlecollector]

An example of an English no 3 as they probably looked before being replaced and/or enlarged on top to project above the edge.

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[fiddlecollector]

On a side note what is the history of all those semi-circular saddles on the `shrine to music ` instruments, are they originally that shape?? I find the end shot of the 1715 Rogeri interesting! Was it an Amati thing ,the Harrison Strad as a variation,but some certainly dont look original,replacements?
Some dont seem to have any sign of one, others appear to have been filled in with rib and a conventional saddle put on.

[bmccarthy]

A fairly crude version of No3

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