35 replies to this topic

[wooden]

theres no reason to replace them, theyre perfectly good for this type of violin, you want some kind of baroque tailpiece/fingerboard and these ones help sell the instrument, unless you want to do an ebony veneer fingerboard and make your own tailpiece, thats a lot of work for this level instrument

Thank you Lyndon. I appreciate your post. It was more a matter of taste really. I thought it would be better to set up a full ebony set (a standard baroque one; not one made by myself)

[Richf]

I found Peter's mention of CF Martin interesting, since (as I understand it) he introduced the violin-style mortised neck to guitar making. The integral neck block in the violin under discussion here continues to be used in Spanish guitars. Glenn Wood tried to convince me one time that that the integral block, also known as a "Spanish heel" is so named because the extended section looks like the heel on some archaic Spanish boot. I thought the term simply referred to the fact that it is used in the Spanish guitars. Maybe our Spanish friends can comment on that.

Regardless of all that, I think the integral block in this guitar is interesting for another reason that is relevant to the observation that it was used on good violins early on, and on cheap violins later (albeit with many exceptions). I have only seen the integral block with that platform extension on quality Saxon instruments (and on today's Spanish guitars), and I have only seen abbreviated integral blocks (ie, without the platform) on later, cheap violins. Not saying that that's a rule or any kind on identification tool -- just that that's what I've seen.

Richard

[Ratcliffiddles]

I found Peter's mention of CF Martin interesting, since (as I understand it) he introduced the violin-style mortised neck to guitar making. The integral neck block in the violin under discussion here continues to be used in Spanish guitars. Glenn Wood tried to convince me one time that that the integral block, also known as a "Spanish heel" is so named because the extended section looks like the heel on some archaic Spanish boot. I thought the term simply referred to the fact that it is used in the Spanish guitars. Maybe our Spanish friends can comment on that.

Regardless of all that, I think the integral block in this guitar is interesting for another reason that is relevant to the observation that it was used on good violins early on, and on cheap violins later (albeit with many exceptions). I have only seen the integral block with that platform extension on quality Saxon instruments (and on today's Spanish guitars), and I have only seen abbreviated integral blocks (ie, without the platform) on later, cheap violins. Not saying that that's a rule or any kind on identification tool -- just that that's what I've seen.

Richard

Sorry we're deviating, CF Martin learnt his trade with Johann Stauffer, and in fact one of the earliest Martin guitar, New York 1835, is virtually identical to his former employer's work in Vienna. (including Alpine wood for the front.)
Neither have integral neck/block, always two separate pieces. Block usually spruce ( I am reliably informed)

[Richf]

Only a small deviation I hope, since I'm still interested in the neck block in Wooden's fiddle. But yes, Peter, that's what I meant about the mortised neck -- two pieces. I thought CF Martin got that from the violin makers in his family. He was from Markneukirchen. But I checked to see that he indeed apprenticed under the guitar maker Stauffer in Vienna. So that must be where he got that. Now, where did the x-bracing come from?

BTW, for anyone who hasn't seen it, there is a neat little book, "The Worshipful Guild of Violin Makers in Markneukirchen," that records the history of violin families in Markneukirchen, 1677-1772 (by Petong and translated by Herron-Allen, 1894).

Richard

[Addie]

The arts and crafts book of the worshipful Guild of violin-makers of Markneukirchen, from the year 1677 to the year 1772

[Ratcliffiddles]

Only a small deviation I hope, since I'm still interested in the neck block in Wooden's fiddle. But yes, Peter, that's what I meant about the mortised neck -- two pieces. I thought CF Martin got that from the violin makers in his family. He was from Markneukirchen.
Richard

No, because Markneukirchen violins at the time were made made with through necks (like the OP's violin), not separate neck and block, or are we talking across purposes?

[Richf]

This actually clears things up nicely for me, Peter. I knew that the integral block was a Saxon feature, but yet here is CF Martin from Markneukirchen introducing a mortised block. But he got that from his Vienna apprenticeship, not from home. Mystery solved.

Yes, Addie, that's the book. Your link to it is better than mine. Thanks.

Richard

[fiddlewallop]

Thanks for your response Lyndon. Very interesting. I didn't realize that the style changed in regards to carved out bass bars in the 18th and 19th centuries.

Wooden, I was just looking at the back plate in more detail. It almost appears as though there is a two piece back with a split up the middle. Is that the case? I am at a loss for why a maker would split a perfectly nice 1 piece back and make it two pieces.

[Richf]

From the outside, it does indeed appear like it could be a two-piece back. But the separate photo of the inside of the back doesn't show any seam. Strange that someone would put a scratch like that down the full length.

Richard

[fiddlewallop]

From the outside, it does indeed appear like it could be a two-piece back. But the separate photo of the inside of the back doesn't show any seam. Strange that someone would put a scratch like that down the full length.

Richard

I might be imagining things, but I think I can still faintly see the line on the inside of the back. Hard to tell from the pictures. Maybe Wooden could confirm or dis-confirm.

[wooden]

I might be imagining things, but I think I can still faintly see the line on the inside of the back. Hard to tell from the pictures. Maybe Wooden could confirm or dis-confirm.

It seems to have a scribed line along the back. But it is one piece. I was also wondering which use could it have. Any idea?

[LongNeck]

Hello. This is a violin I have had for years.
Does anybody know where can it be from?

Your post and the other posts seem to refer to pictures of your violin.

But I do not see any pictures.

Have they been taken down?

How can I see the pictures?

Thanks.

[Dave Slight]

Now, where did the x-bracing come from?
Richard

I believe that X bracing was not developed by Martin, and was already in use before he adopted it. From memory I think there are X braced Washburn guitars which pre-date Martin's use of it.

[Jeff White]

[quote name='Dave Slight' timestamp='1341680327' post='548717']
I believe that X bracing was not developed by Martin, and was already in use before he adopted it. From memory I think there are X braced Washburn guitars which pre-date Martin's use of it.
[/quote
Washburn is pretty much a divisionn started...late 1800's by Lyon and Healy (Chicago, I think)to sell/market fretted string instruments, CF Martin goes back to the 1833ish. A number of others were also playing around with x bracing in the mid 19th century, like Schmidt/Maul...and some others I can't begin to remember. The X bracing is not laid out very much like the "modern" type though, as bodies expanded and strenghth needed for for modern strings, variations were used to develope what everyone seems to use today.

[Dave Slight]

Thanks for that Jeff, I knew it was in use by people other than Martin, but I couldn't remember exactly who. You are right about the bracing patterns, it was quite basic at the beginning.

[wooden]

Your post and the other posts seem to refer to pictures of your violin.

But I do not see any pictures.

Have they been taken down?

How can I see the pictures?

Thanks.

I'm so sorry for the inconvenience. I removed the photos as I needed the space to upload some more for another posts. I'm attaching again some. I apologize for the trouble.