34 replies to this topic

[luthierwannabe]

I have a violin just come in my shop with a Gagliano label inside. As far as I can tell it says:- Raffaele ed Antonio Gagliano, Quondam Giovanni Napoli 1859 (or 1852). I believe the label to be the real thing.
It was brought into me to have some open seams and cracks fixed and a new bridge and endpin installed, which I have the skill level to do. However there is a nasty crack in the front plate that was repaired by a gorilla. It is quite horrible. There is also some surface damage on the back plate where the chinrests have been.
My dilema is that if this is the real thing it has the potential to be a very expensive violin, providing it is restored correctly. There is the rub. To repair the damage, done by the gorilla, would involve opening up the old crack to level the plate and most probably destroying some of the varnish in the process. Then doing a high quality finish to the repair work itself. This is a bit outside of my skill level and I would not feel comfortable attempting it. I work mainly with student level instruments.
Should I tell my customer to take it to a high end restorer and also get it appraised and certified?
Thanks....Tony

[Andrew Kochie]

Label looks printed. Additional photos of the instrument?

[lyndon]

i wouldnt even think about restoring a gagliano, by all means i reccomend taking it to an expert, if it were just a bridge needing replacement, maybe, one of the best lessons a newer repairperson can learn are their own limitations,

i have a policy i dont work on violins over 10,000usd and have a qualified expert shop i work with and refer to, i dont ruin expensive violins and work on student/intermediate stuff he has little interest in, so we have a symbiotic relationship,

you will ruin your reputation very quickly if a top shop finds youre doing substandard work on expensive violins, they will go out of their way to talk dirt about you, as they are in business to protect the violins, not the business you are taking away from them

[Jeff White]

Luthierwannabe, we need pics of the violin, no label pics. Lyndons totally right, but only applies if you have a nice instrument, should be very obvious with good pics. jeff

[Addie]

The label in Jalovec has the same identical smudge in the upper left corner. Coincidence?

Attached Thumbnails

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[stephen maloney]

Fonts look really pixelated and the label itself "antiqued". Computer printed on an old foxed antique book page and then mechanically doctored a bit, perhaps? Clever if so. Er, not really.

[lyndon]

sorry but this label looks original to manufacture but that doesnt make it a gagliano

the "smudge" in the top left corner appears to be part of the printing stamp, the dirt marks around this mark on the label in the book are totally missing from the OPs label, clearly not a photocopy of the one in the book

under magnification the label appears pixilated, but the wood around the label appears pixilated the exact same way, so its not the label.......

[Michael Richwine]

Label appears to be screen printed on pulp paper, neither of them appropriate to the time. Odds are very strong that it turns out to be later, and German.

[luthierwannabe]

Hi All,
I will be talking to the owner today and I will ask his permission to post some pictures later today.
Thanks...Tony

[La Folia]

Nonado is right. If you magnify the image you can see the screen in the background. It runs diagonally through the image.

[lyndon]

as i said before the screen runs through the wood around the label too, does the violin have a genuinely grafted scroll, if not theres little chance its real

the fact that the date is the same on the jalovec label is not a good sign though.....it could be a copy of the label from jalovecs source, not the one in the book, this one is much clearer than the one in jalovecs book......

mr luthier wannabe should have a magnifying glass to tell us if the label is printed or made of dots, the idea of identifying a violin by its presumably fake label is particularly ridiculous, even if the violin was real it could easily have a fake or reproduction label, and if the label is real it could easily have been stuck in a cheaper violin.

[luthierwannabe]

I have spoken to the owner and have his permission to upload these pictures. As you can see the violin needs a lot of TLC and a major restoration, if it is authentic. The white sqare under the tailpiece is sheet foam to prevent damage as there is no bridge.
The sound post, which was rattling around inside, intrigues me some what. I have never seen one with strings attached like this. Was this common practice at some time? The post has notches cut all the way around the post at each string location. I assume these strings were used to make the moving of the post easier. If not, what would they have been used for?
Thanks...Tony

[robertdo]

that is a strange way to kidnap a sound post indeed...
Woa, the flames on the scroll look like they were painted!

[luthierwannabe]

that is a strange way to kidnap a sound post indeed...
Woa, the flames on the scroll look like they were painted!

Definitely not painted.

[Ratcliffiddles]

I think we can safely say that it has absolutely nothing to do with any Gagliano of any kind.

[luthierwannabe]

mr luthier wannabe should have a magnifying glass to tell us if the label is printed or made of dots,

Hi Lyndon,
Yes I do have a magnifying glass. I see that the label is covered with thousands of minute dots. They appear to be laid out on a matrix at 30degrees to horizontal in each direction....Tony

[luthierwannabe]

I think we can safely say that it has absolutely nothing to do with any Gagliano of any kind.

Oh, that is disappointing. But on the bright side it means that I get to work on it.
Would you care to share your reasons on how you came to that conclusion
Thanks...Tony

[duane88]

Aside from looking more German than anything, the "Conservatory" brand kinda kills the Gagliano attribution...

You see the strings everywhere you see fiddles! I used to think that it was only the simple folk of the Southern Appalachian mountains that did that, but it seems to be a universal way to attempt to stand up and adjust a soundpost without a tool.

[fiddlecollector]

Definitely not painted.

Looks painted on to me as well

[jacobsaunders]

Looks like Schönbach, shortly before WWII to me. Since it seems terminaly damaged by the treble f hole, I would wonder if it`s worth doing.