64 replies to this topic

[vlado]

In most cases, the articles or books, it is evident that the interpretation of the top plate of the violin in one piece, and implemented by school Mittenwald. Or is this method of construction (one piece above), was known elsewhere. I ask for your opinion, especially you Roger, Jacob, Lyndon, Peter and others. I ask for your input especially from your experience on this issue.

[lyndon]

my guess is one piece tops can be found just about anywhere trees grow 2ft wide or wider

[jacobsaunders]

In most cases, the articles or books, it is evident that the interpretation of the top plate of the violin in one piece, and implemented by school Mittenwald. Or is this method of construction (one piece above), was known elsewhere. I ask for your opinion, especially you Roger, Jacob, Lyndon, Peter and others. I ask for your input especially from your experience on this issue.

Once you notice your first one piece belly, you start too feel surounded by them. Some makers seem to normaly use one pc. bellies (Cypers, for instance). After all, if the wood is big enough, you would be daft to saw it in half, and join it again, wouldn`t you!

[vlado]

my guess is one piece tops can be found just about anywhere trees grow 2ft wide or wider

Lyndon, Thanks for your reply.

How I understood the answer, one piece tops are not tied to a specific region.
Can you tell me if this can be characteristic of large or well-known builder in the 18th or 19th century (Italy, Germany, Czech Republic or elsewhere).

[vlado]

Lyndon, Thanks for your reply.

How I understood the answer, one piece tops are not tied to a specific region.
Can you tell me if this can be characteristic of large or well-known builder in the 18th or 19th century (Italy, Germany, Czech Republic or elsewhere).

Thanks Jacob,

I am uncertain of one piece, because one piece on top of the violin most of the people immediately "characterized" as an inexpensive instrument made ​​in Mittenwald - (Northern Alps). For this reason also I would like some more information about my imperfect knowledge.

[jacobsaunders]

Thanks Jacob,

I am uncertain of one piece, because one piece on top of the violin most of the people immediately "characterized" as an inexpensive instrument made ​​in Mittenwald - (Northern Alps). For this reason also I would like some more information about my imperfect knowledge.

It would be mistaken to “characterize” it as coming from anywhere particular. I will leave it to Roger to say which one pc. Italians he has seen. I have a Mirecourt one here in the workshop at the moment and probably other ones, where I haven`t noticed yet.

[martin swan]

yes, quite a lot of Mirecourt violins, even late 19h century ones, Scottish and English obviously, some very nice French instruments, as Jacob says, some very expensive Italian violins ......

[Guy Harrison]

The 'Rotondo' Alessandro Gagliano, from 1710, (old Strad poster) is a nice example of an Italian violin with a one piece top. Though I don't how common this was for Alessandro Gagliano.

[Brad Dorsey]

yes, quite a lot of Mirecourt violins, even late 19h century ones...

I see quite a few inexpensive Mirecourt violins with one-piece tops, too.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

In most cases, the articles or books, it is evident that the interpretation of the top plate of the violin in one piece, and implemented by school Mittenwald. Or is this method of construction (one piece above), was known elsewhere. I ask for your opinion, especially you Roger, Jacob, Lyndon, Peter and others. I ask for your input especially from your experience on this issue.

I guess I'm one of the "others".

No. It is not exclusive to Mittenwald. Some Cremonese makers, including Stradivari, occasionally made instruments with one piece tops (I believe the "Conte de Fontana" is one). Guadagnini used them, a number of French makers were known to use one piece tops (including Vuillaume), Cuypers has already been mentioned (I have one here with a one piece top), I've seen a few American instruments with one piece tops, etc., etc.

[Don Noon]

After all, if the wood is big enough, you would be daft to saw it in half, and join it again, wouldn`t you!

I had a slab for a 1-piece top. Had to saw it in half to fit it into my processing chamber.
Yes, I agree... I'm daft. And quite comfortable with that.

At least I didn't have to worry about different runout across the joint.

[Bill Yacey]

I used a one piece fir top once; it had beautiful straight , even grain, looked fantastic, but was just much too dense to sound like anything worthwhile. It takes a pretty good sized tree to be able to get some one piece tops out of it having even grain.

[lyndon]

any tree good enough for a two piece cello top is good enough for a one piece violin top

[vlado]

Jacob,
I agree with your thesis and all involved in this topic.

However, pending a reply from Roger, gives some additional information.

If I can continue. I'm talking about one of the old violin that has some characteristics (including rates), the old Italian school. However, since the one-piece top plate, and probably replaced the violin neck, by almost everyone automatically places them in Mittenwald.

One-piece top plate has a lower and upper panels of wood pin.
Furthermore, the violin has a top and bottom block, and all four side blocks. Purfling channels are shallow, 1.0 - 1.1 mm, a width of 1.2 mm (measured from CT).
F holes are either Stradivari or Guarneri. F hole is above 42 mm, 121.7 mm below. Dimensions inside the violin (above 160.3 mm, 103.7 mm in the middle, below 201.6 mm), and are similar to mold "PG".

I have read here that the school Mittenwald include one-piece bottom rib, and a saddle that is partly cut in the rib.
Mentioned violin has a one piece bottom rib, ridge is extended to the lower rib. Under the saddle in the middle but not to fix a notch center.

I wonder whether this is another feature of these schools.

Or perhaps there are other features of the violins, which would more accurately be defined as a specific model.

[Kev Chanot]

My Great,Great,Great Grandfather Georges Chanot(Paris)quite often made violins with one piece tops.

[Bruce Carlson]

Jacob,
I agree with your thesis and all involved in this topic.

However, pending a reply from Roger, gives some additional information.

If I can continue. I'm talking about one of the old violin that has some characteristics (including rates), the old Italian school. However, since the one-piece top plate, and probably replaced the violin neck, by almost everyone automatically places them in Mittenwald.

One-piece top plate has a lower and upper panels of wood pin.
Furthermore, the violin has a top and bottom block, and all four side blocks. Purfling channels are shallow, 1.0 - 1.1 mm, a width of 1.2 mm (measured from CT).
F holes are either Stradivari or Guarneri. F hole is above 42 mm, 121.7 mm below. Dimensions inside the violin (above 160.3 mm, 103.7 mm in the middle, below 201.6 mm), and are similar to mold "PG".

I have read here that the school Mittenwald include one-piece bottom rib, and a saddle that is partly cut in the rib.
Mentioned violin has a one piece bottom rib, ridge is extended to the lower rib. Under the saddle in the middle but not to fix a notch center.

I wonder whether this is another feature of these schools.

Or perhaps there are other features of the violins, which would more accurately be defined as a specific model.

How about some decent photographs? This could help explain everything real fast.

Unfortunately many construction features you find on instruments are not exclusive to a specific school but can be found elsewhere. For example, the old Cremonese makers often have (or at least HAD) one piece lower and upper ribs, one piece tops are not uncommon, neck replaced (grafted), top and bottom block and all four side blocks (corner blocks), etc. etc.

Bruce

[vlado]

How about some decent photographs? This could help explain everything real fast.

Unfortunately many construction features you find on instruments are not exclusive to a specific school but can be found elsewhere. For example, the old Cremonese makers often have (or at least HAD) one piece lower and upper ribs, one piece tops are not uncommon, neck replaced (grafted), top and bottom block and all four side blocks (corner blocks), etc. etc.

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the response. I prepared and uploaded photos. I also have a CT scan.

[vlado]

Picture of the front panel.

[Torbjörn Zethelius]

I also have a CT scan.

Naturally.

[jacobsaunders]

Naturally.

For a die-hard Luddite such as myself, the CT scans are entirely useless window dressing. The (only) two pictures make it seem like it could be easy to identify as a Mittenwald “Verleger” if there were a few more pictures. Alternitively, I recently posted the comparative features of Mittenwald v. Markneukirchen/Schönbach
http://www.maestrone...68 (post # 18)
and should you be able to tick all boxes there, there would be little to argue or wonder about.