46 replies to this topic

[Richf]

Martin, I stand corrected. I had to go back to Jacob's Mittenwald Verleger vs. Markneukirchen Dutzenarbeit lecture to confirm I had it backwards: Mittenwald is more likely to have the one piece lower rib and notch.

Richard

[Ratcliffiddles]

Not altogether typical, but I am pretty sure it is Mittenwald, about 1830.

[martin swan]

Martin, I stand corrected. I had to go back to Jacob's Mittenwald Verleger vs. Markneukirchen Dutzenarbeit lecture to confirm I had it backwards: Mittenwald is more likely to have the one piece lower rib and notch.

Richard

AKA "The Mittenwald Notch"!

[jacobsaunders]

A “Mittenwald Notch” is insuficciant to identify an instrument as originating in Mittenwald, since such a ”notch” can be seen on instruments from all sorts of other places too. Those wishing to quote my check list,
(http://www.maestrone...68)
post #18,
should note, that several of the listed features are required for a confident identification, and not a single one.

I will be reserveing judgement untill such time as th OP provides the information I requested in post #15

[Jeffrey Holmes]

A "Mittenwald Notch" is insuficciant to identify an instrument as originating in Mittenwald, since such a "notch" can be seen on instruments from all sorts of other places too.

Thank you Jacob. I thought of opening my mouth (keyboard) earlier today to say something similar.

[Ratcliffiddles]

Not altogether typical, but I am pretty sure it is Mittenwald, about 1830.

I was ignoring the notch , as others have said, it is found elsewhere.

I think it is of the type and period when Mittenwald makers are gradually abandoning the ubiquitous Kloz inspired outlines, and I am pretty sure an internal inspection will reveal the correct characteristics for that area.

[wooden]

I`m terribly sorry, but I can`t work out what it is and am wondering if the scroll belongs to it.

PS.@Wooden:
-are the linings let into the corner blocks and if so, how?
-how far does the fluting of the scroll go around into the throat?

Hello Jacob.
The linings (they are narrow) let into the corner blocks. Sorry I am not sure what do mean with "how?".
The fluting of the scroll goes to the end of the volute: It reaches the throat.
Sorry if my English is not clear enough...

[jacobsaunders]

Thank-you very much: I have absolutely no difficulty with you’re excellent English.

This information means that “A: Markneukirchen-Schönbach” can’t possibly be the case, although it doesn’t entirely exclude “C: Neither A nor B”. I presume that the violin would be from the southern German area, although I’m still a little bit hesitant to say Mittenwald to it.

[martin swan]

I don't think anyone is claiming it's Mittenwald because it has a "mittenwald notch" - I was just agreeing with Richard's own revelation that to dismiss Mittenwald on account of a feature widely known as a "mittenwald notch" seemed a bit illogical! He said that Mittenwald was more likely to have a notch than Markneukirchen-Schoenbach.
Personally I think it's most likely Mittenwald because it's very reminiscent of a violin I know well which was definitely Mittenwald, and the one piece bottom rib and "notch" (hardly visible) are helpful corroboration and a further point of similarity.
But the OP was most likely looking for a country of origin and a rough date ... on which there seems to be broad agreement.

[bcncello]

what is the "II" mark on the scroll and on the lower rib?

Can be those identification marks of a previous owner? perhaps it belonged to a school?

It looks like "J II"

[Addie]

I suppose we could be trendy and call it Tyrolese.


Or just settle for “interesting southern German violin, probably first half, 19th century.” Or make something up, like Josef Verlager 19 Bratwurst Straße Mittenwald, 12 Juni, 1838. Which is pleasingly more definitive, but definitely wrong.






(nobody mentioned the saddle inlet into the ribs... also not diagnostic, but a common feature)

[DGerald StephenR]

(nobody mentioned the saddle inlet into the ribs... also not diagnostic, but a common feature)

That would be "The Mittenwald Notch" everyone is referring to

[Ratcliffiddles]

That would be "The Mittenwald Notch" everyone is referring to

No, it isn't... the notch is the inverted V at the bottom of the rib.

[martin swan]

Addie, you're gonna get a C minus for mentioning the inset saddle .... almost as bad as pointing out the notch!
Although not strictly contra-indicated in an identification of "Mittenwald", we should deem it unworthy of mention, common as it is on Scottish, English, Viennese violins, Ladislav Prokops etc .....
Even the concurrence of one-piece bottom rib, centre notch and inset saddle should be viewed with extreme caution, and should not cause us to hurry blindly to a false conclusion!

Gerald, no actually, the notch everyone is referring to is the remains of an upturned V below the tailpin, which was used to mark the centre point of a one piece rib by Mittenwald makers and of course many other early 19th century schools of violin-making such as ........... erm ..........
Please excuse me if you're using extreme irony!

ps. the marks on the scroll and the bottom rib also look to me like some kid's doodlings .....

[DGerald StephenR]

Please excuse me if you're using extreme irony!

Not extreme irony but I was hoping Addie would correct me...I had just read Mr. Saunders quiz for him and was trying to have some fun Sort of a surprise pop-quiz... You guys are just too quick...

[bcncello]

ps. the marks on the scroll and the bottom rib also look to me like some kid's doodlings .....

What about the circular mark around the tailpin? It looks like if transfered from the inner block or...what?

[Addie]

Addie, you're gonna get a C minus for mentioning the inset saddle ....

No, I was already failed for using a goat emoticon on Maestronet. People don't appreciate how hard it is to find a goat emoticon. Interestingly, the Mittenwald notch was first used as an earmark on local goats. It's well known that Mittenwalders were not wholly luthiers, but also farmed and practiced animal husbandry. (I wonder what Mr. Stephen will make of that term)






(notice the lack of emoticons in this post. Call it "sucking up." Next comes whining and crocodile tears. Gotta bring that grade up to at least a 'C')

[DGerald StephenR]

(I wonder what Mr. Stephen will make of that term)

Do you speak of the fabled Mittengoat? Lovely creature

[martin swan]

Do you speak of the fabled Mittengoat? Lovely creature

You may see a goat, I see a Bosnian bagpipe in waiting (incorporating a Mittengoat notch)

[Addie]

Oi ! No saddle!