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Joniterp

Would you have interest in a little genealogy of your favorite Luthier?

32 posts in this topic

Having pleasure in music, craftmanship, and genealogy, I thought I'd offer to do some simple genealogy on an obscure luthier you would like to know more about. Here are my perameters:

1) As much info about the person as you know (born, lived, age, name, family).

2) Prefer someone from Canada or USA (much easier to research), but willing to try elsewhere if

you are very curious.

3) Prefer 19th or 20th Century, but not exclusively.

4) I'll post the results here in this thread.

5) Edit: No living luthiers.

6) Edit: Some suggestions on requests: Explain your interest in said luthier. How many generations going back would satisfy your curiosity? Do you prefer I post a few documents to show proof (perhaps up to five per request)?

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There have been numerous inquiries in the past from folks wanting to know more about the maker of their instrument, so I think it's just a matter of the right people seeing your post. It would be helpful if you would indicate if you are doing this for the 'fun' of it, or if there would be a charge for the service- (in which case you would probably not be allowed to solicit for the service on Maestronet).

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If a maker is 'obscure' what special services will you provide that I can't access myself using google.

How will you prove any of your findings.

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A little about myself first. I am an experienced researcher and not a certified genealogist, but care about accuracy as much as a luthier cares about mathematics, tone, and pitch. I get paid minimal amount for the research I do, but it's mostly a hobby turned income. It still remains a hobby. What I am offering is free, without charge, as long as it is offered to the public. If you wish the information to remain for yourself alone, than I suggest PM'ing me and we can email about it, and discuss costs. I'm not soliciting business, and only make that offer as a courtesy.

I let the documentation lead me, love the trail of the detective, and would explain my sources in detail. Hopefully, my connections are good enough to give me the access to the more "obscure" requests (Eastern Europe would most likely be a headache, and perhaps impossible online). I belong to different sites online that resource various kinds of archives. I have researched several genealogies for third parties and have experience researching in:

USA: Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Ohio, Illinois, Michigan, South Carolina, Mississippi, and other states.

Canada: Quebec, Acadia, Ontario.

Europe: Midi-Pyrenees and Eastern France, Netherlands, Sweden, Scotland and have a bit of understanding of some other European locals.

Being that the offer is free, I wasn't considering attaching the documents themselves, but I may reconsider. Maybe if someone wants the documentation I'd send it for a charge if Maestronet wouldn't mind. Again, I am trying to balance this between what I'm offering free, and what would be fair per the extent of the request. If Maestronet considers this soliciting, than I'd have to only say I'll post documented proof as I felt like it. I may have to re-learn how to post documents to this particular site (if it's different than other online forums). If you wish documentation, and Maestronet insists on a free offer, than make the request known in your initial query.

Have I covered all the bases? I think so. Make no mistake, I've only thought of this offer because of my own passion for Music (I do have perfect pitch per my college voice teacher and choral director), craftmanship (I was in the 97th math percentile of students in the US in the 6th grade), and genealogy (I am a certified genealogy crackhead). I'm looking as forward to learning about the makers of these instruments as many of you are.

Note to Maestronet: I came to this site to learn more about Joseph Hebert; not to solicit business. I've stayed because of the previous paragraph. Rest assured I have no intent of breaking rules or policy of this site, and if I have in any way done so, please notify me because I wish to continue to enjoy this interesting forum.

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I'd like to ask that any posting to this site does not pertain to the genealogy of a living maker...

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I'd like to ask that any posting to this site does not pertain to the genealogy of a living maker...

A completely appropriate point, thanks Jeffrey.

Any other concerns from anyone?

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...I thought I'd offer to do some simple genealogy on an obscure luthier you would like to know more about...

OK, I'll go first. Can you tell me anything about Frederick P Scott? I am curious about him because a violin of his is the only one in my small collection of New Hampshire-made violin that was made in my home town. The label in the violin reads "Frederick P. Scott - Hopkinton N.H. 1872." The United States census records at the Hopkinton Historical Society indicate that he was born around 1825 and list his occupation as a farmer living in the Hardy's Corner section of town. That's all the definite information that I have on him.

The work on the violin is unconventional but neatly done, and it bears some characteristics typical of early New England violin making. What I would especially like to know is if Scott worked for Abraham Prescott or any of the other better-known New Hampshire makers.

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OK, I'll go first. Can you tell me anything about Frederick P Scott? I am curious about him because a violin of his is the only one in my small collection of New Hampshire-made violin that was made in my home town. The label in the violin reads "Frederick P. Scott - Hopkinton N.H. 1872." The United States census records at the Hopkinton Historical Society indicate that he was born around 1825 and list his occupation as a farmer living in the Hardy's Corner section of town. That's all the definite information that I have on him.

The work on the violin is unconventional but neatly done and bears some characteristics typical of early New England violin making. What I would especially like to know is if he worked for Abraham Prescott or any of the other better-known New Hampshire makers.

Thanks Brad, I'll get back to you by this evening, perhaps sooner.

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Hello Joni, firstly I have to compliment you for starting a fascinating thread. :) Would it be possible to find anything on a black violin maker named luthier D. Heiges 1890 - 1936 from Balrimore Maryland. I recently started a thread on black makers and he was the only one that surfaced so it would be very interesting to find out anything about him. All we have is a label with his name. Thanks, Wolfe.

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Having pleasure in music, craftmanship, and genealogy, I thought I'd offer to do some simple genealogy on an obscure luthier you would like to know more about. Here are my perameters:

1) As much info about the person as you know (born, lived, age, name, family).

2) Prefer someone from Canada or USA (much easier to research), but willing to try elsewhere if

you are very curious.

3) Prefer 19th or 20th Century, but not exclusively.

4) I'll post the results here in this thread.

5) Edit: No living luthiers.

6) Edit: Some suggestions on requests: Explain your interest in said luthier. How many generations going back would satisfy your curiosity? Do you prefer I post a few documents to show proof (perhaps up to five per request)?

This is going to sound like another plug for Alan Coggins' Violin and Bowmakers of Australia, mainly becuase it is :-) If you would like to see an excellant example of the kind of research you are proposing get a copy of the book. Alan used the tools of genealogical research to set the family and social context of the makers (other than the living ones generally).

Regards,

Tim

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OK, I'll go first. Can you tell me anything about Frederick P Scott? I am curious about him because a violin of his is the only one in my small collection of New Hampshire-made violin that was made in my home town. The label in the violin reads "Frederick P. Scott - Hopkinton N.H. 1872." The United States census records at the Hopkinton Historical Society indicate that he was born around 1825 and list his occupation as a farmer living in the Hardy's Corner section of town. That's all the definite information that I have on him.

The work on the violin is unconventional but neatly done, and it bears some characteristics typical of early New England violin making. What I would especially like to know is if Scott worked for Abraham Prescott or any of the other better-known New Hampshire makers.

Brad, I've found plenty records to keep me busy and some I wish I had and don't (city directories, for example). I was interupted for a few hours today, but will continue early this week, and should have a nice something to show you soon. I'm a member of ancestry.com, and started a family tree for Frederick, created an free guest account for you to use so you can view all the documents I've collected on him. If you have a current subscription, I'd invite you with editorial privilege, otherwise you can view all the documents and information I've got. I've not found him connected with any identified luthiers to my knowledge, but then again, I wouldn't recognize any names save the one you mentioned above. The guest account is called "LuthierHistorian" and I'll PM you with the password.

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This is going to sound like another plug for Alan Coggins' Violin and Bowmakers of Australia, mainly becuase it is :-) If you would like to see an excellant example of the kind of research you are proposing get a copy of the book. Alan used the tools of genealogical research to set the family and social context of the makers (other than the living ones generally).

Regards,

Tim

Thanks Tim, great idea!

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Hello Joni, firstly I have to compliment you for starting a fascinating thread. :) Would it be possible to find anything on a black violin maker named luthier D. Heiges 1890 - 1936 from Balrimore Maryland. I recently started a thread on black makers and he was the only one that surfaced so it would be very interesting to find out anything about him. All we have is a label with his name. Thanks, Wolfe.

I very much look forward to this next research when I've finished with Frederick P Scott. For clarification, his name is "Luthier D. Heiges" or "D. Heiges"? Anything else of interest about him that you've run across?

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...I'm a member of ancestry.com, and started a family tree for Frederick, created an free guest account for you to use so you can view all the documents I've collected on him. If you have a current subscription, I'd invite you with editorial privilege, otherwise you can view all the documents and information I've got. I've not found him connected with any identified luthiers to my knowledge, but then again, I wouldn't recognize any names save the one you mentioned above. The guest account is called "LuthierHistorian" and I'll PM you with the password.

I've gone to ancestry.com, logged in with the password you sent me and searched for Scott. I see that they have United States census records, a Civil War draft record and a Michigan death record for him. When I click to view the image of a record, I get a message saying I have to sign up for a membership. Am I doing something wrong?

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It's actually Luther and not Luthier, my mistake. There seems to be very little on him other than DOB and where he's from. If you find you're reaching a dead end I could start a separate topic specifically on him which might net in more info. I've attached a photo, which was recently posted by David Fredrick, of one of his labels.

For clarification, his name is "Luthier D. Heiges" or "D. Heiges"? Anything else of interest about him that you've run across?

post-45756-0-47830500-1330364691_thumb.jpg

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I've gone to ancestry.com, logged in with the password you sent me and searched for Scott. I see that they have United States census records, a Civil War draft record and a Michigan death record for him. When I click to view the image of a record, I get a message saying I have to sign up for a membership. Am I doing something wrong?

After signing in, on the top left hand side there is "Family Trees". Put your cursor over that and your Scott family tree will 'drop down'. Click on 'Scott Family Tree' and each person has a profile with 'sources' to the right on the 'timeline' which has the documents and proofs of each event and relationship. Also, it has a overview of the whole tree.

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Brad,

You've had a chance to look at some of the work I've done; it's far from finished. For the last couple days I've been looking into news articles from Concord and Hopkinton NH (still working that angle), and came across some interesting info I wanted to pass on. Your researching luthiers of New Hampshire, perhaps your familiar with the Moore family. If not, I recommend researhcing them online. The patriarch of the family was Dr Jacob Bailey Moore who settled in Andover. Besides medicine, he fancied himself a composer and published many news articles. His 'namesake'son J B Moore became an editor and partner in the local newspaper in Concord, and eventually moved into politics in Merrimack, publishing in Concord--music compositions, history, and more (and book selling), and music instrument sellor. J B's brother, Henry Eaton Moore, became a composer (and publisher) of both vocal and instrumental music, a music teacher and music education advocate, etc.. The last brother was John Weeks Moore who trained as a printer, helped with the publishing and edited music publications.

I just 'touched the surface' of this family, not having much time to research them. I first became aware of this family by finding an advertisement from early 1800's selling violins and viola's by J B Moore. Enjoy.

Here is a list of music edited by John Weeks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Weeks_Moore

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If you have some time, I'd like to know more about Samuel Nemessanyi and Heinrich Knopf. Great forum topic!

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If you have some time, I'd like to know more about Samuel Nemessanyi and Heinrich Knopf. Great forum topic!

You shall be number 3 on my list. Might take awhile before I get there.

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...Your researching luthiers of New Hampshire, perhaps your familiar with the Moore family...

I'm not. I have no information on any New Hampshire violin makers named Moore. Tell me "moore" if you can.

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I'm not. I have no information on any New Hampshire violin makers named Moore. Tell me "moore" if you can.

They aren't makers as far as I know. I think they impacted classical music in central New Hampshire from what I found out above. Call them, "supporting cast" of your field. The three main mediums I see of promoting your field in early to mid 19th century would be through 1) Newspapers by news, social news and advertizement, 2) Publishing books and music, and 3) Education. Music was a vital part of this family and they seemed to promote it in all three areas mentioned.

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Brad,

I came across something interesting about Frederick P Scott's mother. I haven't yet attached it to the tree until I get all the documents I can. It looks like Frederick's father John Scott died (or divorced??) before 1833 when his widow married a second time to Thomas Hardy. Frederick was 7 or 8 years old at the time. Thomas had a niece named Lucetta (Lucitta) whom Frederick married years later (his 'step' cousin). Thomas died a few years later, and Lucinda married yet again to James Putney in 1840. Then James died (or divorced Lucinda) and she married in 1850 to Benjamin Hardy (unknown connection to Thomas). I'm currently verifying all the information before I attach it, but everything I've yet found supports this (including children records from the various marriages). One marriage record I haven't yet found (Thomas and Lucinda @ 1833). Census record's support it (Lucinda was born in late 1799--I have her birth record). In 1850 Frederick was living with his bride and her family in Hopkinton (Frederick's step-uncle Daniel David Hardy family) which was very close to where his mother was living with her fourth husband, Benjamin Hardy.

During my research into various newspaper's of New Hampshire, I ran across bit's about Frederick I might as well pass along here. I found 2 letters awaiting him at the post office in Hopkinton in July of 1841 (using his middle name 'Perry' which apparently he used on and off). I found references to his civil war service (signed up twice). After the war I found him in the sport's page. He had bagged many loons over a period of 18 months (one article said years) and gives me the impression of the classic 'Romantic'. I've wondered if he grew up making violins from a young age or practiced it like 'trench art' in the war. No telling as yet. I also found a story (made up I believe) which tells a heart warming story that was first published in Scotland than made it to F P Scott's local paper (and many many others) in 1841 (he was about 15-16) about a young boy who grew up to be a luthier and used that talent to win the heart of the woman he loved. The story is seen in many places on the internet, and for the 19th Century 'Romantic' it would have left an impression. (The story is called 'Tis useless trying' about the fictitious boy Reuben Van Der Dest)

Question: I noticed that the 'Hardie' name is a long standing luthier family in Scotland (the New Hampshire Hardy family is also of Scottish origin) and wondered if you knew of any 'Hardy' luthier's from New Hampshire?

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Also Brad,

My roommate has a better laptop than mine; I was using it for some work on Frederick and she's gone out of town for about 10 days, so I'm going to work some preliminary stuff on Wolfe's request Luther D Heiges from Baltimore Md. I'll continue to press on Frederick as well. And as I PM'd you, if you have any questions or comments, post away on the tree or here. I'm comfortable enough with what I've done on the tree that you can pass the info along to whomever. After I attach the men of Lucinda's life, I'll make the tree 'public' so anyone with a subscription can see it, and what you and I haven't passed on here, I'll pass on then in summary of what we have so far for the board.

For anyone who would like to see the Tree so far on Frederick P Scott, your welcome to find it at Ancestry.com with attached documents for your own viewing. Feel free to post comments about the man here, especially if you recognize a name or question a finding. Even though others may be working the same individuals as I, I am very cautious about what I attach to the tree until I verify the evidence.

To view Frederick P Scott's info:

Ancestry.com, then log in to "LuthierHistorian" with the password "luthier". On the left top is "Family Trees" with drop down content and then 'click' on "Scott Family". Enjoy. It's not alot, but it isn't bad for what I was trying to accomplish. Hopefully there is much more to come.

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