51 replies to this topic

[4Stringg]

Hello Fingerboard,

Does anyone have any experience with this book, or it's proposed method of left hand violin technique?

Mr. Ricci suggests that in Paganini's time, prior to the chinrest, violinists played with thier thumb anchored against the violin's rib. One played first position by reaching fingers back toward scroll, and played higher positions by extending fingers forward toward tailpiece.

Any comments?

Thanks,
4Stringg

[Andres Sender]

I think the book is fascinating and I'm glad I have it. Many teachers seem to think there is value in learning about Mr. Ricci's ideas.

I don't doubt that Paganini played the way Mr. Ricci describes, but there seems to be some confusion on the question of how others played prior to the chinrest.

Although it sounds like Mr. Ricci believes everyone played that way, in fact something very like normal position playing as we know it is clearly documented as being used during the baroque and afterwards. Furthermore Paganini would hardly have considered his approach a ‘secret’ if the technique was widespread.

You can get a good picture of Mr. Ricci’s ideas in this article from The Strad magazine which they have been kind enough to post for free viewing on their site:

http://www.thestrad....410Paganini.pdf

[MingLoo]

I looked at this a little bit several months ago. I like Mr. Ricci. His grandson wrote me one time, years ago. Mr. Ricci gave a master class at Rice and did his famous thing, which was to look at all of us, and say, what would you like me to play? And I like the stories about his practicing, in bed when he was ill.

But that stuff seems a little eccentric to me, and I probably would not use it.

Just my 02.

[Bruce Tai]

For an amateur who sucks at shifting positions, this idea is very refreshing

[zefir68]

I looked at this a little bit several months ago. I like Mr. Ricci. His grandson wrote me one time, years ago. Mr. Ricci gave a master class at Rice and did his famous thing, which was to look at all of us, and say, what would you like me to play? And I like the stories about his practicing, in bed when he was ill.

But that stuff seems a little eccentric to me, and I probably would not use it.

Just my 02.

I was also at that master class. He was clueless how to actually help a student, asked for requests, played anything that was asked in a very sloppy manner. It was impressive as far as remembering all the notes. He did not get the job. As far as I am concerned, he is in the Isaac Stern class of violinists that can play a lot of stuff very well, none good enough to leave a musical imprint for generations to follow.

[MingLoo]

I was also at that master class. He was clueless how to actually help a student, asked for requests, played anything that was asked in a very sloppy manner. It was impressive as far as remembering all the notes. He did not get the job. As far as I am concerned, he is in the Isaac Stern class of violinists that can play a lot of stuff very well, none good enough to leave a musical imprint for generations to follow.

So you were there at the same time! You aren't that fellow I had to complain to Marty about, because he wanted to spit tobacco juice into his violin? You don't remember me? Tall, studied w/ Fleigel, hung around with Mark (composer), John (oboe), Ken (bassoon), Dee (bassoon) , John (bassoon), Dr. Milburn, managed Munchies for a year?

Like your remark about "mastering the violin," this observation is a little lacking in ..hhmm..je ne sais quoi....

[DR. S]

I was also at that master class. He was clueless how to actually help a student, asked for requests, played anything that was asked in a very sloppy manner. It was impressive as far as remembering all the notes. He did not get the job. As far as I am concerned, he is in the Isaac Stern class of violinists that can play a lot of stuff very well, none good enough to leave a musical imprint for generations to follow.

I was in a master class with him at TCU back in the 70s. Very nice. Played one of the Pag Concertos with the Fort Worth Symphony, very sloppy, but with such gusto and bravura that the audience jumped to their feet cheering at the end of the first movement. He talked about his playing. Said that it takes him 4 hours of practice to get everything working. Seemed to have no ego at all. Yes he did a lot of sloppy playing, but when he was on - it was magic. Told a lot of funny stories.

If I remember this correctly, Ricci was responsible for placing much of the unnaccompanied show pieces (including the Pag Caprices), into the common violin repertoire. He was in the Army during WW II and had to travel around with his violin and entertain the troops, usually without and accompanist, so he raided the unnaccompanied violin repertoire for showy peices to play.

Was his masterclass also an audition for a teaching position at Rice?

[crossingthepond]

Not familiar with it.

[Jerry Yochelson]

In 1756, the year that Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart was born, his father, Leopold Mozart, published "A Treatise on the Fundamental Principles of Violin Playing." This book was the authoritative work on violin playing for decades, and new editions were published at least until 1800. Now 1756 is well before Paganini, and well before chin rests as well. Still, when Leopold Mozart describes in Chapter 2 of his book how to hold the violin, his description of the position of the left thumb seems to me quite modern. He says that the thumb should touch the neck just about opposite the position of the second finger when playing F or F# on the D string in the "natural position" (which today we call the first position). He says the thumb should not project too high up, that certainly the skin between the thumb and first finger should be nowhere near to touching the neck.

My understanding is that Paganini had hands of extraordinary size and capability, so I would not be surprised to find that he could utilize unique positions that would not be possible for most of us.

[zefir68]

I was in a master class with him at TCU back in the 70s. Very nice. Played one of the Pag Concertos with the Fort Worth Symphony, very sloppy, but with such gusto and bravura that the audience jumped to their feet cheering at the end of the first movement. He talked about his playing. Said that it takes him 4 hours of practice to get everything working. Seemed to have no ego at all. Yes he did a lot of sloppy playing, but when he was on - it was magic. Told a lot of funny stories.

If I remember this correctly, Ricci was responsible for placing much of the unnaccompanied show pieces (including the Pag Caprices), into the common violin repertoire. He was in the Army during WW II and had to travel around with his violin and entertain the troops, usually without and accompanist, so he raided the unnaccompanied violin repertoire for showy peices to play.

Was his masterclass also an audition for a teaching position at Rice?

Yes, it was. I think Kathleen Winkler eventually won that position.

[zefir68]

So you were there at the same time! You aren't that fellow I had to complain to Marty about, because he wanted to spit tobacco juice into his violin? You don't remember me? Tall, studied w/ Fleigel, hung around with Mark (composer), John (oboe), Ken (bassoon), Dee (bassoon) , John (bassoon), Dr. Milburn, managed Munchies for a year?

Like your remark about "mastering the violin," this observation is a little lacking in ..hhmm..je ne sais quoi....

I was there at the same time. I would like to respond to you privately, but your MN profile does not allow that. Mine does and you have contacted me through it but I cannot respond. I'm probably not as internet savvy as you so I probably missed a link. I really have no idea what you are referring to as far as "mastering the violin". I remember my Rice years very fondly. Glad to encounter another Owl in any forum. (Sid Rich)

[zefir68]

Or should I contact you through your website, "beststudentviolins.com"?

[MingLoo]

I really have no idea what you are referring to as far as "mastering the violin".

Felt completely stupid compared to how I can master a violin.

[MingLoo]

Or should I contact you through your website, "beststudentviolins.com"?

You're welcome to contact me any time; I'm easy to find.

I worked in the music office that year at RU. And I was also close to a couple of string professors. It was not my impression that Maestro Ricci was there, applying for a job. If anything, he was checking us out, not the other way around.

Ruggerio Ricci is not deceased, you know: he is alive and teaching, and reading internet posts in Palm Springs, California. He has been a major figure in the music world for over half a century. If you or I, or anyone, has accomplished a fraction of what he has accomplished, then maybe we can criticize...


Ruggerio Ricci - Official Site

[Lymond]

I was there at the same time. I would like to respond to you privately, but your MN profile does not allow that. Mine does and you have contacted me through it but I cannot respond. I'm probably not as internet savvy as you so I probably missed a link. I really have no idea what you are referring to as far as "mastering the violin". I remember my Rice years very fondly. Glad to encounter another Owl in any forum. (Sid Rich)

Death From Above

[zefir68]

You're welcome to contact me any time; I'm easy to find.

I worked in the music office that year at RU. And I was also close to a couple of string professors. It was not my impression that Maestro Ricci was there, applying for a job. If anything, he was checking us out, not the other way around.

He was applying for the soon to be vacated position of violin professor. (Ed Schmider was leaving for USC, I believe) That year, Ricci, Sylvia Rosenberg, Andres Cardenes and Bill Preucil all came to interview for the job.

Ruggerio Ricci is not deceased, you know: he is alive and teaching, and reading internet posts in Palm Springs, California. He has been a major figure in the music world for over half a century. If you or I, or anyone, has accomplished a fraction of what he has accomplished, then maybe we can criticize...

I know Ricci is not deceased. I admired his playing and own several recordings of his. I just don't think he has the same legacy (technique, interpretative depth) as a Heifetz, Oistrakh, Kreisler, Thibaud, etc. He is a wonderful human being and a great player. I think we are allowed to have favorites and criticize artists that put their product out there, just like we do with sports figures, politicians and the like. I don't think one has to be president of the USA in order to criticize Bush, Obama, Clinton, Reagan, etc. I don't think I have to be governor of Illinois in order to weigh in on the goings on in that office. I don't think one has to have played wide receiver or play for the Cowboys to have an opinion on TO.




Ruggerio Ricci - Official Site

[zefir68]

Death From Above

I loved my time there. I was there from '86-'88, living on the 5th floor for my first year, the last year it was male only.

[Lymond]

I loved my time there. I was there from '86-'88, living on the 5th floor for my first year, the last year it was male only.

Wow. So you were there for the change-over. Tumultuous times, no doubt. I lived on campus at Sid for all 4 years.

I haven't been back to the campus since I graduated, but apparently the construction is intense. After you left, they built another college called Martel, and now they're building two more.

[zefir68]

Felt completely stupid compared to how I can master a violin.

Golf seems like a similar challenge. I have been able to play any of the big five, all available in print on your website, I'm sure.

[dfowler1685]

"I think we are allowed to have favorites and criticize artists that put their product out there, just like we do with sports figures, politicians and the like. I don't think one has to be president of the USA in order to criticize Bush, Obama, Clinton, Reagan, etc. I don't think I have to be governor of Illinois in order to weigh in on the goings on in that office. I don't think one has to have played wide receiver or play for the Cowboys to have an opinion on TO."




Such a large serving of opinion would benefit from a side-dish of data...