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Question about identifying violin maker and possible value?


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#1 haveaquestion

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 10:59 PM

Hi a friend of mine has an old violin that has been in the family for a long time and wanted to find out who the maker of the violin is and what the estimated value of it is or how to figure that out?

The label on the inside says Il' Vibrante' and it has a border around it with vines on the corners. The only other markings I could find is on the screw type thing that connects the far right string to the tailpiece on the lower part of the violin. The marking looks to say "S . BREVETE" and then "D.C" is on the lower half going the other direction. Here are a few pictures...

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The only other information I have is that he said he thinks his family got it around the 1920's but isn't 100% sure. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

#2 Omobono

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 11:41 PM

The lettering on the adjuster : "B.Brevete" - Breton-Brevete, a trade name from Mirecourt from end of 19th Century(?) would hardly be a conclusive clue to it's origin even if it came with the original set-up?
It might indicate a French origin but you haven't given us much of a look at the instrument itself.
Someone here may recognise the name "Il Vibrante" from somewhere?

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#3 haveaquestion

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 03:43 PM

The lettering on the adjuster : "B.Brevete" - Breton-Brevete, a trade name from Mirecourt from end of 19th Century(?) would hardly be a conclusive clue to it's origin only it came with the original set-up?
It might indicate a French origin but you haven't given us much of a look at the instrument itself.
Someone here may recognise the name "Il Vibrante" from somewhere?



Here are a few more photos not sure what you need to look at to tell so I just took a bunch of photos.

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Hope that helps. If anyone knows anything any help would be appreciated, thanks.

#4 ~ Ben Conover

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 04:15 PM

Looks like a cheap trade fiddle, though I'm not gonna hazard a value.

Cheers.

#5 Ratcliffiddles

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 04:42 PM

The scroll pictures help.
French trade violin circa 1900
One bow Chinese, the other probably Czec
The "brevete" on the adjuster only means it's patented (the adjuster).
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#6 Omobono

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 05:49 PM

French trade violin circa 1900
Peter

Sounds about right to me......

Omobono: 12th Century citizen of Cremona
and patron saint of its craftsmen.

#7 Brad Dorsey

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 06:51 PM

The narrow corners, the purfling set close to the edge and the one-piece back with the wide button all remind me of the Saxon violins that most commonly are labelled E Martin, but sometimes Eduard Reichert and other names.

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#8 Ratcliffiddles

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 01:12 AM

Ther are some French trade fiddles with the same attributes, some labelled The Carrodus, (purfling close to edge etc..)
And I really think that scroll is French.
I don't actually think it really matters in this case.
I won't attempt a translation of the label, as this post might then be pulled... let's say this one doesn't not batteries..
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#9 Magnus Nedregard

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 01:55 AM

Ther are some French trade fiddles with the same attributes, some labelled The Carrodus, (purfling close to edge etc..)
And I really think that scroll is French.
I don't actually think it really matters in this case.
I won't attempt a translation of the label, as this post might then be pulled... let's say this one doesn't not batteries..


:) the correct italian term would be "vibratore" though. "Il vibrante" sounds rather like the nickname you would give to a violinist with too much vibrato :) I don't know whether saxon or french but certainly a trade violin from about 1900.

#10 Ratcliffiddles

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 05:46 AM

I fear that "Il Vibratore", as a trade name, probably wouldn't be a good choice if anybody out there is short of a brand name. It may attract unwanted attention (especially on the net...)
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#11 ~ Ben Conover

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 07:18 AM

Well, il vibratore might be a good tool for violists.

#12 Ratcliffiddles

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 10:05 AM

That's below the belt!
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#13 Marc Genevrier

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 11:59 AM

Some further pictures? :) http://toronto.kijij...QQAdIdZ61859405

Otherwise, and just for the sake of curiosity: the writing on the button reads "Breveté S.G.D.G." The acronym means "Sans Garantie Du Gouvernement" (Without any warranty by the government). This "SGDG" was used from the 19th century up to 1968 and relates to the way patents were issued in France in that period. "Breveté SGDG"was the standard label and appears on a huge amout of older items, so you may encounter it again!

As for Il Vibrante, that sounds also quite "french italian" to my ear. Maybe you will find some further info here:
http://www.luthiers-..._fabriques_.htm

If you're patient enough, you may go to the Documentation section and download catalogs of many Mirecourt factories of that time. Maybe Il Vibrante appears somewhere.

Marc

#14 germanbeckham

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Posted 14 July 2008 - 10:30 AM

Some further pictures? :) http://toronto.kijij...QQAdIdZ61859405

Otherwise, and just for the sake of curiosity: the writing on the button reads "Breveté S.G.D.G." The acronym means "Sans Garantie Du Gouvernement" (Without any warranty by the government). This "SGDG" was used from the 19th century up to 1968 and relates to the way patents were issued in France in that period. "Breveté SGDG"was the standard label and appears on a huge amout of older items, so you may encounter it again!

As for Il Vibrante, that sounds also quite "french italian" to my ear. Maybe you will find some further info here:
http://www.luthiers-..._fabriques_.htm

If you're patient enough, you may go to the Documentation section and download catalogs of many Mirecourt factories of that time. Maybe Il Vibrante appears somewhere.

Marc


Off-topic: I went to the link you provided and clicked on " BARBE F" and a Laberte-Humbert catalog came up. On page ten, it shows a Breton violin. Were F. Barbe and F. Breton working for Laberte-Humbert like Barnabetti worked for Jerome Thibouville Lamy? It seems as if JTL and Laberte-Humbert were two mega-firms back then. Here is a link to the catalog.
Oh my! Look at pages sixteen and twenty-four in the catalog I linked to. That's a nice trolley system they have set up. :) Just imagine standing in aisles and aisles of violins! Most of which, are pretty decent, too. Is the factory is still standing?
On to the violin in question. In my opinion, that scroll is probably from the early 1900's in France, as Ratcliffiddles suggested.




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