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M_A_T_T

Do you like my varnish color?

42 posts in this topic

Been doing some varnish testing with oil varnish. Here is a piece of rib stock. It has two coats of 1/2lb cut orange shellac, and only ONE freshly applied coat of my test oil varnish for now. Do you think with subsequent coats it will turn intro a desirable color?

Here is the varnsih recipe I used:

10ml of Damar Resin crushed into powder

15ml of #915 Eco-House Orange Terpene Solvent

2-parts Asphaltum

1-part Alizarin Crimson

2-parts Indian Yellow

10ml Walnut Alkyd Medium.

This comes out extremely watery and leaving the lid off for a week to let the solvent evaporate thickened it to something like honey, which I then used.

varnishtest1ct.jpg

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I would use more colour, getting the colour near the wood helps transparency.

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Looks nice Matt.

As to your question of subsequent coats, I've learned a hard fought

lesson this summer. Mainly, if the colour of the wood is too

bright, more coats of varnish doesn't make the final colour a warm

tone no matter the number of coats.You will get more colour, but,

will always see that white wood shine through it.

I imagine that varnish of yours over a warm cinnamon wood and I

think it would be stunning.

If I imagine it over fresh white wood, I don't think think you'll

be happy with it in the end.

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I agree with Darren. I would tan the wood in the sun or UV box, use some strong tea and perpahs 4% potassium nitrite to darken the wood first.

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I think this would be great as a base coat - but I would use a red oil varnish over it.

From most examples I'e seen, better results come from several different colors being used - for example, a yellowish-brown like what you have on top of the ground, then madder-colored varnish.

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MATT

You might consider experimenting on a test rib by dividing it up and applying progressively more coats to each section?

3 questions:

- Does the orange terpene affect the rate of 'drying'?

-Is there any residue that you can see in a clear glass container if you allow the solvent to evaporate completely?

- In a section with multiple coats that is dry, can you indent easily with a nail or does it crackle off?

Thanks

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Michael Darnton used to say here that he starts with red and follows with yellow. It really works well.

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" Michael

Darnton used to say here that he starts with red and follows with

yellow. It really works well. "

 Manfio

That reminds me of the fat over

lean rule for oil content.  In this

case you could call it the "light over heavy colour rule"

Works very well.

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What I mean is, how has been your experience with it. I haven't

tried it yet.

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As a matter of fact I use sodium nitrite, it's less expensive and easier to buy. Make a 4% solution and apply over bare wood and expose it to the sun for some hours (test in samples first).

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quote:


Originally posted by:
Janito

3 questions:

- Does the orange terpene affect the rate of 'drying'?

-Is there any residue that you can see in a clear glass container if you allow the solvent to evaporate completely?

- In a section with multiple coats that is dry, can you indent easily with a nail or does it crackle off?

Thanks

1) I do not know, not enough experience with it. What should I look for?

2) You mean just solvent alone?

3) I'll report back when I have applied more coats. Which is more desirable, crackling off?

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MATT

Does the varnish remain tacky after days in light, hours in a UV box?

Does solvent alone leave a residue after evaporation?

I meant to say 'chipping off', indicating poor adhesion to lower coats. You might also want to check the adhesion to the shellac coat.

Some soft varnishes can be imprinted by the lining of a case, for example, so the balance of adhesion to these materials versus undercoats can mean the difference between ecstasy and despair!

If you achieve a craquelure effect, this can look very attractive.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
Janito

Does the varnish remain tacky after days in light, hours in a UV box?

Does solvent alone leave a residue after evaporation?


I don't have a UV box, I am using daylight through a window. I'll let you know. I'll also put some solvent in a glass jar and see what is left when it evaporates.

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Window glass is a great UV filter.

You are much better off putting the test strip or instrument in direct sunshire for a few hours (watch for over- heating).

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You won't know how you're doing for transparency until you have the full darkness you want.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
Andres Sender

You won't know how you're doing for transparency until you have the full darkness you want.

I know. I will be putting more coats on.

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Manfio , can you describe how you make a 4% sodium nitrite

solution. Thanks.

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4 grams of sodium nitrite dissolved in distilled water of sufficient amount to make 100cc of solution.

(1 gram of water = 1cc)

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Bob A , That was very helpful , thanks for the response.

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Yes, apply the solution and expose the instrument to direct sunlight or UV box for 5 or 6 hours. Test on samples first. You can start with weaker solutions, since the final result is a bit impredictable sometimes.

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Manfio:

These are some of your following quotes:

"one coat of Padding's "Doratura Cremonese" thinned with Kerosene

and heavily coloured with asphalt (roof tar) and Alizarin Crimson.

The kerosene/pigments thinner will be very very concentrated, a

residue will form in the bottom of the jar, so filter it;

two coats of Padding's "Doraratura Rossa" used the same way. Used

1500 Micro Mesh betwen the coats, as well as tripoli. Polished with

tripoli and polish."

"The Doratura Rossa varnish is quite red, but don't be fooled, it

looses colour quite a lot, so add the bitumen and alizarin as I've

mentioned."

"getting the colour near the wood helps transparency."

From this formula, Manfio, you add alizarin and bitumen to all

three of  your final varnish coats which doesn't put the

color closest to the wood but throughout the layers.  Is that

last statement about color position nearest the wood not all all

that important in all cases?

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You are right, all the 3 coats are heavily coloured. Try first in samples.

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Manfiio, a couple of weeks ago, I started a new topic asking how to accelerate the browning of wood. There were three suggestions made to me: spraying (misting) with water once a day, applying a solution of turpentine with a few drops of oil dissolved (I used 30 ml of turpentine with 10 drops of flax seed oil), and your suggestion of a 4% solution of nitrite.

I tried the turpentine with oil, and it actually accelerates the browning process, but I did not try your process because I did not have any nitrite salts. Which process do you think works better? Do you purchase the sodium or potassium nitrite from a chemical supply company?

Mike D

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Yes, I've got my sodium nitrite from a chemical supply, sodium nitrite is cheaper and more easy to buy than potassium nitrite.

Yes, the turpentine with oil works, I'm using my oil varnish (2 parts oil, 1 part rosin, one part mastic) diluted in turpentine to help the tanning process too.

My whole process, that I may have already mentioned here is the following:

I start with a somewhat dark coloured wood, this way:

Sun tanning,

strong tea,

4% potassium nitrite in water followed by exposition to direct sun (6 hours), perhaps 2 times that (test in samples first, take care with the top, it can get blotched),

some of my oil varnish (the recipe in Biblioteca Marciana, Venezia, also on Baese's book: 2 parts oil, one part colophony, one part mastic) diluted in turpentine, 2 coats,

strong tea,

light glue sizing with a bit of alum,

stain (harmell)

more tea,

light fumigation with amonia.

If it gets too dark in the middle stop the process. It's a bit intuitive, like cooking (I love cooking...).

After all that the wood will have a strong cinamon colour and the wavings will be darker. This method would not be used by people with a faultless and very clean work, such as Darnton or Burgess, but it's good for a "Guarneriesque" work as mine.

Ground: my oil varnish (2 parts oil, one part colphony, one part mastic) can send you the recipe) in a paste with tripoli rubbed into the wood (don't leave it build up, don't leave it thick anyway). I take off the excess with a rag with kerosene, apply a bit more of my oil varnish and rub it over the wood to develop a very thin, but quite reflexive surface. This ground will penetrate a bit in the wood and that will make the contrast in the flames more visible, I think. The penetration in the wood will be stoped in different depths of the wood (this process had already started with the aplication of my thinned oil varnish) causing the holografic and tridimensional effect.

Varnish:

one coat of Padding's "Doratura Cremonese" thinned with Kerosene and heavily coloured with asphalt (roof tar) and Alizarin Crimson. The kerosene/pigments thinner will be very very concentrated, a residue will form in the bottom of the jar, so filter it;

two coats of Padding's "Doraratura Rossa" used the same way. Used 1500 Micro Mesh betwen the coats, as well as tripoli. Polished with tripoli and polish.

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