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Purfling/bee sting knife pic


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#1 Dean_Lapinel

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 12:38 PM

Thanks to a fine Luthier friend of mine I now own two fine handmade knives. They work wonderfully!
Really nice design and feel to these.

Sorry but for reasons of privacy I am not allowed to mention the maker but this gentleman is a star!

#2 Andres Sender

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 05:48 PM

Most intriguing Dean. Tell us more about how they work for you! Are there any details besides the edge shape and orientation which explain their success?
The problem with the ignore feature is that if one has a sort of morbid fascination for train wrecks one can keep peeking and then the benefit is out the window.

#3 Dean_Lapinel

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 06:47 PM

.

#4 M_A_T_T

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 07:28 PM

quote:


Originally posted by: Dean_Lapinel
In trying all my knives on spruce and hardwood I found (as many do) that the slight curvature of this blade glides through spruce as if it is butter.


This must explain why I have seen some makers' purfling markers with rounded blades. I must try that.

#5 David Tseng

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 12:12 AM

A convex edge cuts better than a straight edge with a pointed tip, also the pointed tip will break more easily. I hold the handle of my purfling knife in the palm and place the thumb at the end of the handle like holding a dagger and carve that way particularly on maple back. Hold it like a pencil and the blade edge at front for cutting sound hole.

#6 M_A_T_T

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 06:21 PM

quote:


Originally posted by: Dean_Lapinel
this gentleman is a star!


He gave me one too, and for those who were interested here is a shot of the blade:



#7 Andres Sender

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 06:28 PM

I'd VERY much like to see pictures of bee stings done with this knife. It is not unlike Jeffrey's in shape, whereas I note that nertz and Michael D use rather long pointy knives.
The problem with the ignore feature is that if one has a sort of morbid fascination for train wrecks one can keep peeking and then the benefit is out the window.

#8 Marcos Schmitz

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 06:43 PM

I improvise with "http://www.maestronet.com/forums//include/uploadbox/viewfile.cfm?files=Imagem%20117%2Ejpg"
target="_blank">this
cataract surgery scalpel.
Marcos Schmitz

#9 Andres Sender

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 07:01 PM

Licastro please don't tell me that's the side view...
The problem with the ignore feature is that if one has a sort of morbid fascination for train wrecks one can keep peeking and then the benefit is out the window.

#10 Marcos Schmitz

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 07:29 PM

Well, as I said it is an improvisation, maybe improper for ones. I
am just starting my third instrument, so I have more ideas then
good tools.

This "http://www.maestronet.com/forums//include/uploadbox/viewfile.cfm?files=Imagem%20117%2Ejpg"
target="_blank">blade
is thin, 5mm short and very very
flexible. It never breaks, but folds. I know I have to improve my
tools.
Marcos Schmitz

#11 Andres Sender

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 07:54 PM

No criticism intended Licastro, I'm just curious about what you've got there.
The problem with the ignore feature is that if one has a sort of morbid fascination for train wrecks one can keep peeking and then the benefit is out the window.

#12 Melvin Goldsmith

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 09:01 PM

Hi Dean, Those knives are nice, but they just look fine for painting by numbers to me. I feel the best curves are cut with a slighlty longer curved pointed knife that allows one to sculpt a line. .....Too many people get fixated on Strad purfling....Look at Nicolo & the Bros Amati because that's what Strad was referencing. Judging and cutting the purfling & corners should be done in seconds and the right tool will help.
www.goldsmithviolins.com

#13 MANFIO

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 09:36 PM

Hi Melving! Good point. I'm not a StradCentrist...

Since I'm with the Guarneri family for my violins and violas, I can use my beatle blunt sting knife...

#14 Jeffrey Holmes

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 09:54 PM

quote:


Originally posted by: Andres Sender
I'd VERY much like to see pictures of bee stings done with this knife. It is not unlike Jeffrey's in shape, whereas I note that nertz and Michael D use rather long pointy knives.


Actually, I think if you check the old photos you'll see that although the knife I use is curved, it has a longer "point" than the one Dean now has. The curve doesn't swing as wide until after the cutting surface has ended... but Dean's knife looks very nice (beautiful design) and I'm sure works quite well once you figure it out.

#15 M_A_T_T

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 10:28 PM

Also note that Dean has two knives pictured, one of which is much smaller than the other, mine being the same as the larger one in Dean's picture.

#16 Craig Tucker

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 11:26 PM

Out of curiosity, is that bade made from hammered steel round stock?

 ... Another pleasant valley Sunday,

Here in status symbol land.


#17 M_A_T_T

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 11:44 PM

quote:


Originally posted by: ctviolin
Out of curiosity, is that bade made from hammered steel round stock?


"It is made of 1.2% carbon steel and hardened to RC 64 to keep a sharp edge" is what the maker told me. I also just re-read (in my PM folder) that the knife I was given is NOT the beesting knife, that is the smaller one in Dean's picture. Still can't wait to use it though.

#18 Mike_Danielson

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Posted 09 June 2006 - 12:29 AM

I think those knives need some modification to improve their abilities. First, I would carve away some of the wood near the steel end so that you can see the blade doing its work--the wood shields the work. I would start about 1.5 cm back from where the steel meets handle and taper the wood until it meets the steel. This is a matter of individual taste on how you want to adjust the wood.

Secondly, you really want a straight knive rather than a highly curved one because you are trying to drive it into some tough wood (maple); so you need a sharp point which will penetrate better since the forces are greater with a point compared to a curved edge.

Finally, what is this fixation with hardness? Rockwell 64 is too hard and makes for a brittle point which will break. This is the one place I have found the Pfeil steel knife blanks to be as advertised, and they are Rockwell 59-60. Pfeil knife blanks are cheap, readily available, and make good purfling knives. You can easily make a handle for them--I always choose a pretty wood.

I never lose sight of the fact that tools are made to be used--they have a job to do; so I fearlessly modify them as needed.

#19 Jeffrey Holmes

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Posted 09 June 2006 - 12:47 AM

quote:


Originally posted by: Mike_Danielson
Secondly, you really want a straight knive rather than a highly curved one because you are trying to drive it into some tough wood (maple); so you need a sharp point which will penetrate better since the forces are greater with a point compared to a curved edge.


I'm not sure I agree with you about the "straight" part, Mike... but I suppose it might depend on what you mean by "straight". I do agree with the point issue, for myself, but I prefer a curve from the point... and I don't have any difficulty making it through the maple in two or three passes.

Here's a link to the previous discussions on purfling knives, complete with pretty pictures.

Purfling knife thread

#20 Andres Sender

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Posted 09 June 2006 - 02:23 AM

Jeffrey may I trouble you for the width of the blade on yours?
The problem with the ignore feature is that if one has a sort of morbid fascination for train wrecks one can keep peeking and then the benefit is out the window.




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