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Eduard Reichert 1912 violin


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#1 tomeng

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 07:17 AM

Eduard Reichert 1912 Violin.
Hello,
I have this violin on trial from Johnson String Instruments in Mass., USA. Anyone have any info on this violin ( excellent condition) and any info on reputation of Johnson .
The cost of violin is $ 2600.00 US.
I'm not looking for resale its for playing but I don't want to overpay by say $2000.00.

Any help is appreciated

Tom

#2 Brad Dorsey

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 08:17 AM

Johnson has a great reputation. I know them and they're nice folks. I think they're also one on the sponsors of this forum. I think Eduard Reichert is a trade name rather than a real maker. I've seen a lot of them. They've all been medium quality commercial German instruments. It seems like a reasonable price for an instrument like that from a shop like that. Only you can decide if it plays right for you.

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#3 Froggie

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 08:46 AM

I have one like it, a Guarnari model with nicely flamed back and the label says made in Dresden. Brad is right that it is a trade violin. They are listed in the Roy Ehrhardt violin price guide. The valuations in that book do not mean anything, but it is a good source of descriptions. It plays well and it is well constructed. However, when I sight down the fingerboard, I see several degress of twist in the scroll and peg box, but not the neck. I don't know what happened during the construction, but my fear is that the twist makes make my particular violin somewhat less valuable than the one you are looking at. The twist does not affect the playability. The fingerboard is straight with the body.

#4 tomeng

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 08:49 AM

Hello all,
Thanks for comments and thoughts re: this violin. I have it for a few more days to decide but here's some things I've noticed. It has a brighter more "violin" sound than what I have now (Gliga Vasile 2001). It seems to be easier to play. I seem to be more fluid in my playing??? Here's one other thought I've had. I realize that it is an old " trade" violin and there was no such person, but how bad could the construction be if its still around after 100+- years. They must have done something right. I've been playing guitar for some 30 years. I've purchased and sold many. Some of the more expensive didn't sound any better than the "cheapy". Maybe it not the instrument at all.

Just some thoughts.
If anyone has anymore info or comments please reply. I need all I can get.

Tom

#5 Michael Darnton

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 09:30 AM

The guys who were making "factory" violins 100 years ago were excellent workmen, and their instruments are consistently better-informed than modern factory stuff. I wouldn't worry a bit about that part of it.
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#6 MANFIO

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 09:38 AM

Yes Michael, and some of them are made with top quality would, that would cost a mint today. I think they are better (and cheaper) instruments for students.

#7 tomeng

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 08:41 AM

Hello all,

Again Thank You all for the info. Its all been very helpful.
As with all art there is alot of passion for what your into.
I'm 41 years old (today). I won't be playing in any big concerts, probably not for any other violinists other than a teacher. Most of the people I play for couldn't tell the difference between a 200 year old Strad and my first violin. Listening to CD's doesn't help because they're all cleaned up and polished, played in a near perfect acoustic condition by masters. I just enjoy playing and learning. it keeps the mind active and is a distraction from modern life. I was just looking for something a little better than what I had. To me this seems a little better, a little easier to play, a little "nicer" sound. It seems to allow me to enjoy my playing (which is not great by any means) a little more. I just know that when I play for someone and I'm in that "zone" it doesn't matter if I haad a Strad or $50.00 cheapy when they say "that was great". Ultimately, pleasing yourself and who your playing for is the goal. My goal would never be to please other violinist, I know my limitations.
That said The violin is $ 2000 in Johnsons Catalog (vs$2600 on line). Maybe I could get then down to $ 1700?
Again thanks for all you input.
Please post if you have anymore comments or email @ ldcsurveying@comcast.net.

All the best
Tom

#8 fiorini

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 09:11 AM

Many of the socalled trade Dresden or Markneukirchen violins are sold in Ebay for 100-300 USD, in German Ebay for about 100-200 Euro. If you spend another 300 USD for a god setup, this is much cheaper than buying the same violin in a shop for 1700 or 2000 USD.

#9 gbakalyar

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 11:07 AM

Tom,

Congradulations on your violin playing. I began playing about two and a half years ago and am making progress. One of the side benefits of my playing has been the quest for my ultimate violin. In my particular case, the search lead me to Ebay and I have had an incredible amount of fun buying, selling, fixing and playing numerous violins. My best find to date has been a 1938 Enrico Robella that I aquired for $ 350.00 more or less. The Robella is a Markneukirchen trade fiddle of good quality, probably not a good as the violin you are considering. The violin arrived when I was out of town on business when I arrived home from the trip I stole the strings off one my 1900 vintage Sears fiddles, fit a new set of pegs and gave her a try. The pleasure I received from hearing the beautiful sound of that instrument was indescribable. When you hold and hear a keeper you will know it. The anticipation and the hunt for THE violin is a joy for me personally. Unfortunately for me there will always be another violin to find, maybe that's not so unfortunate.

Good luck,

George

P.S. I have spent a lot more than $2,500.00 on getting to where I am in my search for THE violin. All things considered a violin you love for $2,500 is not bad.

#10 tomeng

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 05:44 PM

Hello again,

I have given this a lot of thought. Here's some things I came up with:
1. Why would Johnson String Instrument sell an instrument for $2000 that has a true value of say $500.00? They wouldn't. Its their reputation on the line and if I'm not happy I certainly can plaster my displeasure across the internet, a large source of their business.
2. I think that a Strad would bring big money whether is was great sounding or sounded crummy. I'm sure he had off days that produced instruments that were not so good. I'm sure he didn't just throw out the violin. His family had to eat. In the same regards I'm sure there were some workers who produced "trade" violins that were proud of what they did and did the best possible job. I'm sure there are some "trade" violins that sound great and some Strads that do not.
3. When I listed to I.Perlman I don't know if he playing a Strad or a cigar box with strings. I think that if Perlamn played my violin he would sound like Perlman. In contrast, I could not play his Strad and sound like him.
4. Price of an instrument is dictated by what someone will pay, not necessarally the quality of the instrument. Is a 1950's Les Paul Gold Top guitar better than a 2004 Epiphone Copy. Hell no. The new one has better pickups,materials and production methods. The Les Paul doesn.t even sound that good but someone is willing to pay $10000 for it so thats the price, while the Epiphone is $1000. Same with a violin, is a Strad worth $100000. Only if someone is willing to pay that. We should all learn that from Dr. Axelrod recent donation appraised at $30 million, now believed to be worth half that. Was the first appraiser wrong?
My point, Maybe its not the violin, its the player; Not every "trade" violin is bad; not every Strad is good.

I'm going to decide in the next day or two whether to buy this violin. I probably will. I will not take it to get appraised. I will insure it for what their appraisal says and I will be happy and enjoy playing.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks again

Tom

#11 Fellow

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 09:58 PM

Yes and no can be true in each of your question. If you like your violin and you don't mind $2000 to pay for it, Why not? If you turn down this one you may get a better one and cheaper too but that hopeful event may never happen, who knows? Each violin is different (carrying different voices) I think only they label them the same.

#12 Brad Dorsey

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 10:21 PM

"Why would Johnson String Instrument sell an instrument for $2000 that has a true value of say $500.00?"

If they can sell it for $2000, then that is its true value.

Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a banana.


#13 pahdah_hound

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 10:44 PM

The difference between a $500 violin and a $2000 violin is the person buying it and the person selling it. I know. I have bought violins for $500 and sold them for $2000. Unfortunately, I have done the opposite also.

The important thing is that the violin is one you like and the shop properly sets it up to optimize its playability and tone. Then enjoy it and forget the price. If it's good then you will get your money's worth in enjoyment over the years you own it.

I have found that in the under $5000 price range there are no firm connections between sound, quality and price. Some are cheaper and some are dearer, often for no apparent reason. I don't even know what the violins I sell are really worth.

Jesse

#14 Froggie

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 12:42 AM

We know that this trade violin is an Eduard Reichert 1912 (I do not think anyone would falsely label one of these). If the label were removed, so that all we knew from the structure of the violin is it was a trade violin from Germany, possibly Dresden or Mittenwald, and

a) it is in very fine condition, pleasing to the eye
:) the tone is good
c)it is easy to play

Would it then be more likely, without the label, to be easier to sell for $2000 or more than it would with the Reichert label? Can knowing the pedigree depress the price of an otherwise nice violin?

#15 Fellow

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 03:19 AM

There are many $8000 or in that price range violins do not have sound as good as a trade violin in ($500-$2500) range.
Yes, better workmanship (most sand paper work) but no sound to speak of. So what do you rather have? I would forget the labels. At least you have a violin that its sound you like. When you play, nobody would care to check.

#16 Mark_W

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 08:58 AM

Quote:



Would it then be more likely, without the label, to be easier to sell for $2000 or more than it would with the Reichert label? Can knowing the pedigree depress the price of an otherwise nice violin?




The answer is certainly yes. The Reichert violins are common enough to settle into a known price bracket. This is almost certainly a trade name. I've met with a couple of them, and I'm convinced there was no actual maker by this name. The instruments themselves, based on about two I've seen, are decent work. I still own an 'Eduard Reichert Dresden' bow, which is silver mounted and quite nice.

#17 Fellow

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 09:57 AM

Hi all,

".... I would forget the labels. At least you have a violin that its sound you like. When you play, nobody would care to check......" I said it without considering owner's feeling.

It is HARD to forget the label. Believe me.
The most frequent asked question in ANY violin forum " Who is this maker?..."

#18 pahdah_hound

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 11:57 AM

I would agree that the price range for a Reichert violin is somewhat predictable and therefore the violin could possibly be more valuable without its label in a retail environment. I know that $2000+ for a German trade fiddle would be a lot of money on eBay. I expect middle of the line trade Lowendall, E. R. Schmidt, Wilhelm Duerer, Heberlein, Juzek, etc to have an eBay top end of about $1000 - $1500 but that is without the major advantage of a good shop like Johnsons's behind it.

I think an obscure label on a good looking handmade violin is often better for eBay value than a well known German trade label.

I have even seen false German trade labels in inferior violins.

Jesse

#19 jacobsaunders

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:02 PM

I have even seen false German trade labels in inferior violins.

Jesse

Perhaps we can clear the “Reichert” dilemma up after all this time, since there is one advertized here that says:

“The violin bears the genuine and original label of the workshop that made it.”

http://s1125.photobu...726894521375548

The orthography of the “Original” label might have a whiff of Microsoft to it, if you ask me, and I find it “unusual” that the 11 of 1911 is printed, but never mind.

From the Music Trade Review of 1903, (the advert on the bottom half of this page)

http://mtr.arcade-mu...03-37-15-37.pdf

one learns that the very large instrument wholesale supplier, G. A. Pfretschner of Markneukirchen supplied both instruments and bows with the trade (ie. fantasy) name Reichert/Dresden and that a gentleman called Schoening of New York was the sole US distributor. Reichert isn’t a violin making name known to me, although there were dozens of Reichels (for instance) neither was Dresden even remotely a centre of the violin making cottage industry. Violins labeled Dresden, also from other firms of the time (e.g. Ackermann & Lesser), were invariably manufactured in the Markneukirchen trade (Dutzendware), and marketed as if they were from Dresden, just as the tens of thousands of J. B. Schweitzer, Budapest 1813 violins were made in or around Schönbach/Markneukirchen and had never been to Budapest, even on holiday.

The violin advertized here:

http://www.ebay.at/i...=item4d0be8f1ec

Is a straight forward “Dutzendware” (trade violin) of the cheaper grade from the Markneukirchen/Schönbach area, so I hope nobody will get the wrong end of the stick when he/she reads in its fleabay listing:
“This violin was made in 1911 in Dresden, Germany by the firm of Eduard Reichert. The firm employed talented violin makers who made several grades of violins for export to the United States”.



#20 nathan slobodkin

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:45 PM

Thank you Jacob! It is really usefull to have genuine historical information about these dealers and the violin trade whose products we see on a daily basis. As Michael Darnton mentioned in this thread the makers who worked in the trade back in it's heyday were really  good at what they did (although " informed" is not the word I'd have used).I am not sure I'd agree however with some of the other posters that these instruments are necessarily better than some of the Chinese work being sold today. While the European workers were certainly very practiced there was a pretty cavalier attitude about measurements.that I think is better now. I'm also thinking that they might have been paid on a piece work basis that encouraged quantity over quality. Does Jacob or any one else have any documentation about the wages and so on in the early violin making centers?






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